[ARC5] A-10 Radios

jeepp jeepp at comcast.net
Wed Jul 11 21:17:56 EDT 2018


    
Well, to be precise, US channel spacing for aeronautical VHF is currently 25 kHz.  The Europeans currently use 8.33 kHz spacing for the high altitude structure, above FL195, shortly to be applicable for all altitudes.  For the low altitude structure, 25kHz will get by, for a little longer.  The thing is, general aviation in Europe is very small compared to the US and thus has minimal influence as to regulations.  Jeep K3HVG


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Robert  Eleazer <releazer at earthlink.net> 
Date: 7/11/18  15:18  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Bart Lee <kv6lee at gmail.com>, Jay Coward <jcoward5452 at aol.com> 
Cc: "To: ARC-5" <arc5 at mailman.qth.net> 
Subject: Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios 


The big factor is bandwidth.  Aircraft 
frequencies are on a 5 KHZ spacing now.  Move 5 khz on narrow FM 
and you are talking over someone else. 

Wayne
WB5WSV  

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Bart Lee 
  To: Jay Coward 
  Cc: Bob Macklin ; To: ARC-5 ; 
  Robert 
  Eleazer 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 2:10 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios
  

  
  Yes, the wiki says:
  

  Originally from amateur radio, the phrase was used to 
  describe the way an FM transmitter will cut in 
  and out as it nears the capture threshold of a moving receiver or 
  transmitter as it passes through fresnel zones, thus chopping the speech of 
  the transmitting operator. It is not clear if the phrase was intended to 
  describe the loss of the speech, or if it actually referred to the chopping 
  sound itself, which imitates the noise produced by dragging a stiff object 
  across a picket fence.

  

  I first heard the term all 
  too many decades ago in the Civil Air Patrol, as just a quick explanation 
  for why AM instead of FM in aviation.  I have heard the 
  effect on FM radio while driving.  I think Jeep is right that it's 
  lock-in more than anything else that keeps aviation radio in AM, other 
  than for long distance communications where power matters, hence 
  SSB.
  

  73 de Bart, K6VK 
  ##
  

  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
  -- 
  
  
  Bart Lee
  
Texts only to: 415 902 7168 


  www.bartlee.com 
  

  {KV6LEE(at)gmail(dot)com} 
  ##
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  



  
  On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Jay Coward <jcoward5452 at aol.com> wrote:

  
    Hi Bart,
     Isn't this also known as "picket fencing" from multipath 
    reception?
     Jay KE6PPF
     
     
    -----Original 
    Message-----
From: Bart Lee <kv6lee at gmail.com>
To: macklinbob <macklinbob at gmail.com>
Cc: To: ARC-5 <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>; Robert Eleazer <releazer at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2018 2:00 
    pm
Subject: Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios


    
    
    
    FM received by a mobile 
    (or air mobile) vehicle can "washboard" the received signal as the moving 
    vehicle hits the incoming radio waves. Car radios on FM frequently have this 
    issue. Aviation AM may or may not have been selected to avoid this problem, 
    at 135 MHz and below. AM was the way aviation radio started, so there was 
    some lock-in, especially after Curtis LeMay selected single sideband for SAC 
    in the early 1950s. SSB's power advantages may also have come into play. 
     73 de Bart, K6VK ##
    
    
    
    
    
    
    -- 
    -- 
    
    
    Bart Lee 
    ​, K6VK, CHRS, AWA, 
    ARRL​
    
Texts only to: 415 902 7168 


    www.bartlee.com 
    

    {KV6LEE(at)gmail(dot)com} 
    ##
    

    
    
    
    
    
    
    



    
    On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 5:31 PM K5MYJ <macklinbob at gmail.com> wrote:

    
      
      The reason for the use of AM in aviation is you can hear 
      when somone doubles. Not so with FM.
       
      The reason of low band FM is to communicate with the 
      troops on the ground.
       
      I was in Korea in 1953. We used AT-6s for FAC 
      operations. Our AT-6s had ARC-5 VHF radios.
       
      The people on the ground had ARC-3s in 
      jeeps.
       
      Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios 
      Glow In The Dark"
       
       
      
        ----- 
        Original Message ----- 
        From: 
        Peter Gottlieb 
        To: 
        Scott Johnson 
        Cc: 
        arc5 at mailman.qth.net ; Robert Eleazer 
        Sent: 
        Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:45 PM
        Subject: 
        Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios
        
In a practical sense for any of us the question might be 
        whether in regular AM and FM use the radio performs any better than 
        other radios. The answer is probably not. 


        
        

        Peter
        
On Jul 4, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net> wrote:


        
          
          
          Most all USAF 
          tactical assets now have the ARC-210, which covers all the military 
          bands and modes from 30-512 MHz, and has built in ECCM and secure 
          speech, as well as satcom capability (all with the proper antennas and 
          switching, of course).  It is an awesome radio, but at $100K a 
          copy, not on my wish list.  Like the ARC-164, it will probably 
          soldier on for at least thirty years (it’s already about fifteen years 
          old, but evolving, just like the -164)  
          
          
          Scott V. Johnson 
          P.E. W7SVJ
          Sunburst 
          Engineering Partners
          5111 E. Sharon 
          Dr.
          Scottsdale, AZ 
          85254-3636
          H (602) 
          953-5779
          C (480) 
          550-2358
          scottjohnson1 at cox.net
          scott.johnson at ieee.org
          
          
          
          From: arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net <arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of 
          Robert Eleazer
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 9:55 
          AM
To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [ARC5] A-10 
          Radios
          
          
          When I was at 
          the Pentagon the idea was to get rid of the A-10 and use F-16's.  
          The F-16 equipped with a weapons load comparable to an A-10 could do a 
          very nice job of making sure no one got past the guard shack at 
          the main gate of its home base. 
          
          
          
          The fear was 
          that the A-10 was so slow that when the Warsaw Pact came through the 
          Fulda Gap the A-10 would get hit on the first day of the war and 
          although probably survive to make it home but we would not have time 
          to repair it before the war was over.
          
          
          
          Some on 
          Congress said that if USAF got rid of the A-10 the US Army should 
          take over the airplane, it being a much better "mud mover."  The 
          Army was terrified, saying that all their airplanes had to have at 
          least two seats.
          
          
          
          Then came 
          Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and the A-10 was the machine to 
          have.  And when the war was over we had lost four A-10's and four 
          F-16's  So much for survivability concerns.  A re-engining 
          program was started for the A-10 a few years later. And the USSR went 
          out of business on 25 Dec 1991; so much for the Fulda Gap 
          concern
          
          
          
          To some in 
          the USAF was faced with either keeping the A-10 or buying the 
          F-35 - and the F-35 won.   I do not know if that insanity 
          persists.
          
          
          
          The A-10 
          would have at a minimum VHF AM Air Band (108-132 MHZ), UHF AM (220-400 
          MHZ), and low band FM (30-76 MHZ) radios.  The ARC-114, ARC-115, 
          and ARC-116 such as carried by US Army helicopters of the late 60's 
          would do nicely but it no doubt has gear later than 
          that.
          
          
          
          Anyway, look 
          it up yourself.  The pilot's manual for the A-10 is available for 
          free download here:
          
          
          
          http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=42
          
          
          
          Wayne
          
          WB5WSV
          
          
          
            
            
              
                
              
                Virus-free. 
                www.avg.com 
            
          
        
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