[ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

Thu Apr 28 12:05:07 EDT 2016

No flames, but at this point the imaginary pole is of no consequence and the
zero at DC is obvious. Or did I misunderstand what you said Bill? 73 - Mike 

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960 

-----Original Message-----
From: ARC5 [mailto:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fuqua, Bill L
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:40 AM
Cc: 'ARC-5 Maillist'
Subject: Re: [ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

  Ok, here is a question but first I would like to suggest a easy to use
program that will design a filter for you, ELSIE. The student version is
free on the internet.
I am sure that this will get  a debate started but one primary interest of
this list is radio and electronic history.
  When did a single LCR resonant filter become a 1 pole filter, it has two
poles symmetrical poles about the real axis and a zero at the origin.
 RC pair or RL pair filters are examples of a single pole filter.  I think
this is sort of like the DE9 vs DB9 connector. 
Now for the flames, etc.

73
Bill wa4lav

________________________________________
From: ARC5 [arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net] on behalf of Mike Feher
[n4fs at eozinc.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:59 AM
To: 'J Mcvey'; 'Dennis Monticelli'
Cc: 'ARC-5 Maillist'
Subject: Re: [ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

Well, you would have to have some design parameters in mind first. Like
passband width and ripple, transition band width, and ultimate stopband
attenuation. Also, do you still want to go all passive? 73 - Mike

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960

From: J Mcvey [mailto:ac2eu at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:53 AM
To: Mike Feher; 'Dennis Monticelli'
Cc: 'ARC-5 Maillist'
Subject: Re: [ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

anybody got specifics to build a multi-pole filter ? It would save me having
to calculate it myself!  I don't think a real narrow filter would be
practical on an ARC5 radio because the band spread isn't sufficient enough
to tune it easily. .

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:46 AM, Mike Feher
<n4fs at eozinc.com<mailto:n4fs at eozinc.com>> wrote:

I know you want to sound smart and you did not say if that was loaded or
unloaded Q. Regardless, he was talking about line transformers and finding a
smaller one and that is what I responded to. Two toroids already means two
poles, which was one of my suggestions. If it was for me I would just design
a nice Elliptic filter for the task. 73 - Mike

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960

From: Dennis Monticelli [mailto:dennis.monticelli at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:44 AM
To: Mike Feher
Cc: J Mcvey; ARC-5 Maillist
Subject: Re: [ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

FYI.  I have a homebrew CW receiver that uses two small toroids (approx
5/8") and fine wire.  The Q for each filter is 5 at 700Hz.  Q is a function
of wire resistance, the permeability of the core material and the loss
factor of the core.  Small size can be good or bad depending upon these
factors.

Dennis AE6C

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Mike Feher
<n4fs at eozinc.com<mailto:n4fs at eozinc.com>> wrote:
For the same inductance a smaller transformer will have a higher R reducing
the Q. You will need more poles and if possible some zeros to make a decent
filter. 73 - Mike

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960

From: ARC5
[mailto:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net<mailto:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net>]
On Behalf Of J Mcvey via ARC5
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 11:14 PM
To: ARC5 at mailman.qth.net<mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [ARC5] Home brew passive CW filter

Someone suggested making a filter using a 70V line transformer. I had been
looking in the junk box for something with high inductance, so I tested the
primary side of a line transformer using the common and 0.62W taps. Sure
enough,  it was useable at 8.5 H  To resonate that at 700Hz , it needs .006
mf, I used a .0047 in parallel with a .001 mf.
That got me a measured resonance of 725 Hz on the first try! Sometimes
theory works!

The test load was 7500 ohms:
input 1.85V
output at resonance was 1 v
Taking the 1 v max, I found -3 db points at 600Hz and 880Hz yielding  a BW
of 280Hz  which is a Q of about 2.6.

It works pretty well, but I am going to try to find a physically smaller
transformer to try to  reduce the insertion loss.

Haven't tried it on a real radio or signal yet, but looks promising.

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