[ARC5] The Norden Bombsight and history. (my rant)

Tue Dec 8 20:50:19 EST 2015

"History is heard to understand, let alone understand correctly"

This is true.   But in order to even start to understand it correctly one
must realize that you must use the frameworks/values etc in existance at
the time of the historical events.  Many do not understand that;  Many
educational institutions do not teach that way.

"Rain of Ruin" by Donald M. Goldstein is by far the best book on the atomic
bombings I've ever read.  Some of the photos are very haunting.

73 Mark K3MSB
On Dec 8, 2015 5:24 PM, "Leslie Smith" <vk2bcu at operamail.com> wrote:

>   An interesting & thought provoking posting.
>   History - understanding history & the importance of a particular
>   item's role in history is very difficult.
>
>   Today (for the past 70 years)  there is discussion about "the bomb"
>   and the need to drop the bomb - particularly the second bomb.
>   I once had the opportunity to ask a fellow who was a POW in Japan in
>   1945 what he thought about "the bomb".
>   This fellow was intelligent and (more to the point) he was in Japan at
>   that time - a POW.
>
>   He told me how the POWs in his camp had dug a long tunnel into the
>   side of a mountain that led no-where.
>   It was to be (my father-in-law believed) a mass grave.  His grave.
>
>   What did he say about the bomb?
>   He told me, "All I know is that it saved my life."
>   There was disbelief in the POW camp about the bomb.  The POWs
>   understood a bomb could destroy a building, or even a larger area.
>   But a bomb that could destroy a city?  That was incomprehensible.  My
>   father-in-law traveled to Hiroshima with a fellow POW to see this
>   impossible thing for himself.  Wearing flimsy tropical rags he
>   traveled by train from Kobe to Hiroshima and saw the ruins for
>   himself.  He told me the people on the train were astonishingly
>   polite, considering the circumstances in Japan at that time.
>
> I had the opportunity to ask another person about "the bomb".   It was,
> I heard, something that was impossible to believe - a single bomb that
> could destroy a city.  I was surprised to hear that same point from two
> different people.
>
>   That's a personal perspective on a particular item in history from two
>   people who were "there".
>
>   Oppenheimer had a view on this part of history too.
>
>   Speaking in 1965 about "trinity" Oppenheimer said, "A few people
>   laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the
>   line [...]  "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I
>   suppose we all thought that, one way or another."
>
> That's the contrast.  To one fellow - my father-in-law - it saved his
> life.
> Oppenheimer had another view, and as some-one who was there - his view
> is legit too.
>
> History is heard to understand, let alone understand correctly.
>
>
>   73 de Les Smith
>   vk2bcu at operamail.com
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015, at 07:43, Taigh Ramey wrote:
> > I agree it was over sold but I don't think it was the military. I believe
> > it
> > was Ted Barth, Carl Norden's business partner and the guy doing the PR,
> > that
> > said they could hit a pickle barrel from 10,000 feet. I remember reading
> > about a press interview where he was asked if this was accurate that he
> > responded 'yes if you tell me which pickle you want me to hit'.
> >
> > This PR campaign won not only the battle of the bombsights (Norden versus
> > Sperry) but it was a good thing for the public at the time. We had the
> > secret Norden bombsight that was going to win the war. A good thing to
> > hold
> > on to in the bleak early days of WWII. Sort of like the great morale
> > boost
> > that the Doolittle raid had on the public.
> >
> > That PR campaign that was so effective way back then that it is still
> > provoking conversations today. Quite impressive in itself.
> >
> > Certainly the Norden bombsight didn't win the war but it made a huge
> > contribution to the war effort. The current thinking is that it was a
> > bunch
> > of hype and part of it was. An essential piece of hype for the public in
> > my
> > eyes.
> >
> > I remember watching the Gulf War news where the grainy views from the
> > smart
> > bombs closing in on the window of the building and thinking 'what's the
> > big
> > deal'? They were doing the same thing in WWII except the video was much
> > more
> > clear!
> >
> > It may not have been as accurate as Barth made it out to be in his PR
> > campaign but it certainly did its job and it got the job done better than
> > anything else at the time.
> >
> > I might add that it was used in Korea and even in Viet Nam with VO-67.
> >
> >
> >
> > Taigh
> >
> >
> >
> > Taigh Ramey
> >
> > Vintage Aircraft Inc.
> >
> > 7432 C.E.Dixon Street
> >
> > Stockton, California 95206
> >
> > (209) 982-0273
> >
> > (209) 982-4832 Fax
> >
> > www.twinbeech.com <http://www.twinbeech.com>
> >
> > KEEP 'EM FLYING...FOR HISTORY!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Brooke Clarke [mailto:brooke at pacific.net]
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 11:56 AM
> >
> > To: Taigh Ramey <taigh at twinbeech.com <mailto:taigh at twinbeech.com> >;
> > milsurplus at mailman.qth.net <mailto:milsurplus at mailman.qth.net> ;
> > arc5 at mailman.qth.net <mailto:arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ARC5] Watch out! Norden Bombsight rant incoming...
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Taigh:
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with all of what you've said.
> >
> > But... it was oversold, that's to say the claimed accuracy was no where
> > near
> > the advertised accuracy.
> >
> > It was much better than W.W.I, but far from the claims.
> >
> > What's the name of that bridge in Vietnam?
> >
> > From what I've read even today's B-52 with dumb bombs is not that
> > accurate.
> >
> > This shows up in the bomb damage assessments.
> >
> > I expect that smart bombs are not as accurate as many people think.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Have Fun,
> >
> >
> >
> > Brooke Clarke
> >
> >
> >
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