[ARC5] ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 76
GOMEZ, STEVEN B
SGOMEZ at entergy.com
Sat Jul 20 11:54:42 EDT 2013
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 08:10 AM
To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 76
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (WA5CAB at cs.com)
2. Re: ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 74 (Paddy Ryan)
3. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (J. Forster)
4. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (Mike Hanz)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 01:36:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: WA5CAB at cs.com
To: k2gkk at hotmail.com, arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID: <ca85d.444ebbc6.3f1b7bde at cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Yes. I didn't say pin 7 wasn't used or couldn't be used. I just commented
that it wasn't used in [normal] operation. If you look at the wiring
inside any vintage receiver rack, you will see that no wires go to pin 7 on the
male connector(s). During maintenance (which isn't operation) the test
fixture plugs into the back of the receiver. No connections are made to the
three dynamotor pins.
In a message dated 07/19/2013 19:30:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
k2gkk at hotmail.com writes:
> Hi, Robert and ARC-5ers.
>
> Can you actually feed the HV, gnd, and filament supply in through that
> back connector?
> I'm thinking of building up multiple power supplies and matching sets of
> remote controls on a chassis to run several receivers.
> I recently purchased four 12.6 VAC @ 3 A transformers and already have
> four transformers with 115/230 V primary and 120 V C.T @ .5 A secondary.
> I figure I can apply ~120 VAC to the seondary and full-wave rectify the
> 115/230 V primaries to run ARC-5 receivers. Should be able to get an easy 50
> Watts out.
> Basically, my idea is to build a box that will power and control up to
> four ARA/274-N/ARC-5 receivers.
> Since some of my "Command" receivers have already been hacked on the rear
> connector, I can build cables to run them from the "magic" box as well.
> I haven't been able to find any receiver racks or I would use some of
> those instead.
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> * 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
> * (Since 30 Nov 53) *
> * k2gkk at hotmail.com *
> * Oklahoma City, OK *
> * USAF &FAA (Ret.) *
> * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
>
>
> >From: WA5CAB at cs.com
> >Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:25:42 -0400
> >To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
> >Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
> >
> >Pin 7 (+HV) isn't used in operation, either. Only on the test bench.
> >
>
>
Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
MVPA 9480
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 12:52:58 +0100
From: "Paddy Ryan" <pei7cn at eircom.net>
To: <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 74
Message-ID: <8BB0A4E8C2344C43B79A35F8DA9ACE78 at PaddyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yeah have been reading this thread..it is actually very interesting and I
was wondering about the reason for the screen voltage there too..one small
point and it's very important..always check the socket first to ensure that
the connections have not been modified..even if the wires and solder
connections look undisturbed I have often found nothing going to a socket
pin as a wire has been disconnected back under the chassis..I have
frequently found only 2 or 3 wires left connected to the socket..invariably
I always use the Dynamotor connections on the top to connect my psu..of
course sometimes these are missing too,hi!..never had a rack or Dynamotor
here..73 de pat/EI7CN
-----Original Message-----
From: arc5-request at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:27 AM
To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 74
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of ARC5 digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (J. Forster)
2. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (Bill Cromwell)
3. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (Bill Cromwell)
4. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (J. Forster)
5. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (Kenneth G. Gordon)
6. Re: R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question (J. Forster)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
To: "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk at hotmail.com>
Cc: ARC-5 Mail List <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID:
<55114.12.226.214.5.1374281246.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Roughly, yes, except in the dyno powered connection there is an C-L-C
filter between the output stage, which is directly on the dyno B+
terminal, and the earlier stages of the receiver.
I don't know if that choke will handle the DC current of the output stage
without failure, if powered from the rear connector.
-John
===============
> Hi, Robert and ARC-5ers.
>
>
>
> Can you actually feed the HV, gnd, and filament supply in through that
> back connector?
>
> I'm thinking of building up multiple power supplies and matching sets of
> remote controls on a chassis to run several receivers.
>
> I recently purchased four 12.6 VAC @ 3 A transformers and already have
> four transformers with 115/230 V primary and 120 V C.T @ .5 A secondary.
>
> I figure I can apply ~120 VAC to the seondary and full-wave rectify the
> 115/230 V primaries to run ARC-5 receivers. Should be able to get an easy
> 50 Watts out.
>
> Basically, my idea is to build a box that will power and control up to
> four ARA/274-N/ARC-5 receivers.
>
> Since some of my "Command" receivers have already been hacked on the rear
> connector, I can build cables to run them from the "magic" box as well.
>
> I haven't been able to find any receiver racks or I would use some of
> those instead.
>
>
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> * 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
> * (Since 30 Nov 53) *
> * k2gkk at hotmail.com *
> * Oklahoma City, OK *
> * USAF & FAA (Ret.) *
> * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: WA5CAB at cs.com
>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:25:42 -0400
>> To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
>>
>> Pin 7 (+HV) isn't used in operation, either. Only on the test bench.
>>
>> In a message dated 07/19/2013 15:06:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> scr287 at att.net writes:
>> > On 7/19/2013 3:08 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >1 - GND
>> > >2 - Phones
>> > >3 - Sensitivity, 50k pot to GND
>> > >4 - CW Osc, switch to GND
>> > >5 - Screen N/C
>> > >6 - + 24 VDC
>> > >7 - +HV, N/C
>> > >
>> > >Is that it or am I missing something.
>> >
>> >
>> > Assuming your R-27 is stock, make sure it has a
>> > plug-in installed in the front.
>> >
>> > The +24V line runs from the rear panel, up to the
>> > connector box in the front of the receiver. Then
>> > from another pin on that box to the filaments and
>> > dynamotor.
>> >
>> > For the typical remote control installation, the plug-in
>> > had a jumper to make the 24V power connection, in
>> > a local control installation, the plug-in held the sensitivity
>> > pot and CW-OFF-MCW switch.
>> >
>> > The screen voltage connection was used in a test bench
>> > setup, it is not used in operation.
>> >
>> > Jack Antonio WA7DIA/4
>>
>> Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
>> wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
>> MVPA 9480
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ARC5 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arc5
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:56:28 -0400
From: Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell at gmail.com>
To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID: <51E9E03C.5090303 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 07/19/2013 08:30 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald wrote:
> Hi, Robert and ARC-5ers.
>
>
>
> Can you actually feed the HV, gnd, and filament supply in through that
> back connector?
>
> I'm thinking of building up multiple power supplies and matching sets of
> remote controls on a chassis to run several receivers.
>
> I recently purchased four 12.6 VAC @ 3 A transformers and already have
> four transformers with 115/230 V primary and 120 V C.T @ .5 A secondary.
>
> I figure I can apply ~120 VAC to the seondary and full-wave rectify the
> 115/230 V primaries to run ARC-5 receivers. Should be able to get an easy
> 50 Watts out.
>
> Basically, my idea is to build a box that will power and control up to
> four ARA/274-N/ARC-5 receivers.
>
> Since some of my "Command" receivers have already been hacked on the rear
> connector, I can build cables to run them from the "magic" box as well.
>
> I haven't been able to find any receiver racks or I would use some of
> those instead.
>
>
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> * 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
> * (Since 30 Nov 53) *
> * k2gkk at hotmail.com *
> * Oklahoma City, OK *
> * USAF & FAA (Ret.) *
> * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
>
>
Hi Mac,
I don't have of the command transmitters. I have not used the rear
connector on my receivers. I have been into the wiring during recapping
and I have been looking closely at the schematics. You should be able to
run the radios through that rear connector. That is what I intend to do
with mine. I will turn them from one power supply/controller that will
switch the voltages like a 'bandswitch'. Since my radios all already
have the usual sensitivity/BFO/audio junk hanging on the front I need
only supply the heater and plate supplies through the back along with my
proposed "muting" line. You won't need to supply the screens through
there as the plate supply pin is common with the dynamotor plate supply
pin on the back porch. The screens will be supplied the normal way. The
dynamotor pins on the back porch will need to be covered with an
insulating material.
I don't have any of the racks or trays or anything else with my
receivers but I note that the rear socket has all female contacts. If
you wire up a cable from your power supply to plug in there you could
possibly have exposed, live pins when the cable is unplugged. I intend
instead to use an idea I saw somewhere (maybe here) and run wires
through those female socket contacts and solder them inside the
receiver. At the other end, outside the radio, I will install a
connector with male contacts to plug into the power supply. Maybe I'll
use octal plugs/sockets. Maybe something else - but that's the plan.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 21:06:49 -0400
From: Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell at gmail.com>
To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID: <51E9E2A9.7020501 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 07/19/2013 08:38 PM, J. Forster wrote:
> I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
>
> Among other things it dissipates a lot of power in one of the screen
> resistors (near 9W) and pulls roughly 35 mA from the dyno.
>
> -John
>
> =============
>
Hi John,
Thanks for your concern about that. I already noticed that I can't just
pull that line to ground as it's wired now. That is, pulling the
junction of those two resistors to ground looks pretty dicey to me too.
I'm thinking more of isolating the screens of those three tubes so they
can be pulled to ground without much influencing the resistors in the
original circuit. A reversal would just cut out the added parts and
reconnect the screens as original. Achieving QSK is worth the effort to
me. YMMV.
73,
Bill KU8H
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 18:10:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
To: "Bill Cromwell" <wrcromwell at gmail.com>
Cc: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID:
<34032.12.226.214.5.1374282612.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
As you wish. I'm not going to cut anything in my receiver.
-John
=============
> On 07/19/2013 08:38 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>> I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
>>
>> Among other things it dissipates a lot of power in one of the screen
>> resistors (near 9W) and pulls roughly 35 mA from the dyno.
>>
>> -John
>>
>> =============
>>
> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for your concern about that. I already noticed that I can't just
> pull that line to ground as it's wired now. That is, pulling the
> junction of those two resistors to ground looks pretty dicey to me too.
> I'm thinking more of isolating the screens of those three tubes so they
> can be pulled to ground without much influencing the resistors in the
> original circuit. A reversal would just cut out the added parts and
> reconnect the screens as original. Achieving QSK is worth the effort to
> me. YMMV.
>
> 73,
>
> Bill KU8H
> ______________________________________________________________
> ARC5 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arc5
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 18:21:20 -0700
From: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
To: jfor at quikus.com, ARC-5 Mail List
<arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID: <51E9E610.10906.15172E6 at kgordon2006.frontier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 19 Jul 2013 at 17:47, J. Forster wrote:
> Roughly, yes, except in the dyno powered connection there is an C-L-C
> filter between the output stage, which is directly on the dyno B+
> terminal, and the earlier stages of the receiver.
>
> I don't know if that choke will handle the DC current of the output
> stage without failure, if powered from the rear connector.
Yes. It will. It is a 3 H choke, internal resistance, 288 to 363 ohms. Its
purpose is to filter the dynamotor hash off the DC. It will handle the
current of
the receiver easily.
Also, the racks that the receivers normally were plugged into did all the
power and control from that connector.
Ken W7EKB
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
To: kgordon2006 at frontier.com
Cc: ARC-5 Mail List <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID:
<57780.12.226.214.5.1374283307.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Ken,
Connected normally, the final audio stage B+ does not go through the
choke. If it's biased Class A, the final stage could draw more than the
rest of the set. If it idles at 50 mA, the transformer will dissipate 1W
roughly.
It's not obvious what the parts of the receiver draw for B+.
-John
===============
> On 19 Jul 2013 at 17:47, J. Forster wrote:
>
>> Roughly, yes, except in the dyno powered connection there is an C-L-C
>> filter between the output stage, which is directly on the dyno B+
>> terminal, and the earlier stages of the receiver.
>>
>> I don't know if that choke will handle the DC current of the output
>> stage without failure, if powered from the rear connector.
>
> Yes. It will. It is a 3 H choke, internal resistance, 288 to 363 ohms. Its
> purpose is to filter the dynamotor hash off the DC. It will handle the
> current of
> the receiver easily.
>
> Also, the racks that the receivers normally were plugged into did all the
> power and control from that connector.
>
> Ken W7EKB
>
>
------------------------------
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End of ARC5 Digest, Vol 114, Issue 74
*************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 05:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
To: "Mike Hanz" <aaf-radio-1 at aafradio.org>
Cc: ARC5 <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID:
<29619.12.226.214.5.1374322711.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Mike,
Do any of the manuals on the receivers or test sets give any details about
the use of screen voltage in testing or aligning the receivers, or is it
just a go/no go indicator AFAYK?
-John
============
> On 7/19/2013 7:51 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon wrote:
>> On 19 Jul 2013 at 14:46, J. Forster wrote:
>>> Does anyone have an opinion why they bothered to bring the screen
>>> saupply
>>> out to a pin?
>> In my opinion, it was used when testing the receiver to make sure those
>> two black wire-
>> wound resistors in the rear were OK.
>
> Exactly right. See the Command Set Test Equipment page at
> http://aafradio.org/docs/Command_Set_Test.html and the SCR-274N test set
> page at http://aafradio.org/docs/ARC_Test_sets.html
>
> 73,
> - Mike
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ARC5 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arc5
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 09:09:43 -0400
From: Mike Hanz <aaf-radio-1 at aafradio.org>
To: jfor at quikus.com
Cc: ARC5 <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [ARC5] R-27/ARC-5 Hookup Question
Message-ID: <51EA8C17.5050605 at aafradio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's basically a go/no go indication, John. There is a range of normal
readings, and if it's outside that range, then you have to use your
noggin and the Theory of Operation and Maintenance sections of the
manual to find out why. (cf. Paragraph 5-18 in the AN/ARC-5 manual for
the process.)
- Mike
On 7/20/2013 8:18 AM, J. Forster wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Do any of the manuals on the receivers or test sets give any details about
> the use of screen voltage in testing or aligning the receivers, or is it
> just a go/no go indicator AFAYK?
>
> -John
>
> ============
>
>
>
>> On 7/19/2013 7:51 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon wrote:
>>> On 19 Jul 2013 at 14:46, J. Forster wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have an opinion why they bothered to bring the screen
>>>> saupply
>>>> out to a pin?
>>> In my opinion, it was used when testing the receiver to make sure those
>>> two black wire-
>>> wound resistors in the rear were OK.
>> Exactly right. See the Command Set Test Equipment page at
>> http://aafradio.org/docs/Command_Set_Test.html and the SCR-274N test set
>> page at http://aafradio.org/docs/ARC_Test_sets.html
>>
>> 73,
>> - Mike
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> ARC5 mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arc5
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ARC5 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arc5
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ARC5 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
------------------------------
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