[ARC5] TBS Radios (VHF for PT Boats)

Fri Dec 10 19:41:35 EST 2010

I don't know about those sets on PTs, but I do doubt the TBS.

-John

==============

>
> I have a book with photoes showing the TCS and AN/ARC-4 along with a radar
> in the PT's. One is a side by side TCS and the other is a verticly
> arrainged TCS. I do not know whether they were Higgins or ELCO boats.There
> may have been installation differences due to different boat builders.
>  My uncle Richard Lamborn was a PT commander and I think his was a Higgins
> but I was too young when he passed to know what he was talking about when
> he "got going". I do know his boat (and many others) was burned at war's
> end to clear it from the inventory.It's all a coral reef by now.
>  Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Forster <jfor at quik.com>
> To: Mike Morrow <kk5f at arrl.net>
> Cc: arc5 <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [ARC5] TBS Radios (VHF for PT Boats)
>
>
> I'm not do sure about TBS on PT boats. One reason is the Tx HV came from a
> everal hundred pound MG set that ran on 115 VDC. The receiver runs of 115
>  60 Hz.
> FWIW,
> -John
> ================
>
>> Dennis wrote:
>
>>Hmmm...  The account relates "excited chatter of the Martinis (PT
>>boats) on the TBS tactical radio...."  PT boats carried TCS radios.
>>Were they equipped with the TBS also?
>
>  The following is from a 1945 USN publication "Know Your PT Boat" found
>  at http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pt/know/index.htm .
>
>  ----------------START EXCERPT
>  ----------------------------------------------
>  Notes for Radiomen.
>
>  8. Your VHF is not as secure as you perhaps assume. Transmissions over
> VHF
>  have
>  gone 400 to 500 miles beyond the horizon. PTs operating reasonably close
>  to enemy
>  territory or units can give away their position and valuable information
>  by useless
>  chatter over a VHF circuit. And remember, you are not the only pebble on
>  the beach.
>  Our planes use it extensively.  Unnecessary PT transmissions must not
>  clutter up
>  communications of a vital operating aircraft squadron. You may think the
>  air is
>  clear because you do not hear any transmissions, but, remember, they may
>  be
>  receiving you several hundred miles away where they may be making a
>  strike. So do
>  not depend on the term "line-of-sight" transmissions. It is not reliable
>  at all
>  times, hence guard the use of your VHF set much as you do the TCS. Jam
>  sessions,
>  razzle-dazzle cowboy stuff, and hot-shot vocalizing are all very amusing
>  to you
>  if you are a lunk head. Just consider the harm you can do to yourself,
>  your
>  shipmates, and our aviators and you will be sure to knock off all
>  unnecessary
>  transmissions. Even when another boat in your section cannot hear you,
>  your
>  transmissions may carry to out-of-sight areas where the enemy may be
>  listening.
>  Transmission security for both radios is greatly enhanced by the use of
>  follow-the leader tactics, basic formations, and courses established
>  before
>  leaving the base, and prearranged rendezvous points and times if the
> boats
>  get separated. When PTs operate in sight of land, special care must be
>  taken
>  in VHF transmission. The Japs have many monitor stations on land and they
>  have
>  made many experiments with VHF type of equipment. It is to be expected
>  that they
>  are aware of our approximate frequencies. Give a Jap station enough
>  transmissions
>  and a shore battery will be laying a shell in your cockpit. For valuable
>  aids in
>  operation and on your equipment see MTB Communication Manual, 1944.
>  ----------------END EXCERPT
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>  The above discussion contains this caution about VHF usage:
>
>  "And remember, you are not the only pebble on the beach.  Our planes use
>  it
>  extensively.  Unnecessary PT transmissions must not clutter up
>  communications
>  of a vital operating aircraft squadron. You may think the air is clear
>  because
>  you do not hear any transmissions, but, remember, they may be receiving
>  you
>  several hundred miles away where they may be making a strike."
>
>  This seems to positively indicate that VHF on PT boats, at least by 1945,
>  meant
>  something like the AN/ARC-4 (or even a SCR-522/624 variant) in the 140
> MHz
>  range,
>  just as these sets provided similar capability for US submarines.
>
>  In any event, it appears the PT boats had some sort of VHF set in
> addition
>  to the
>  TCS.  Were the PTs at the Battle of Suriagao Strait in late October 1944
>  equiped
>  with the same VHF as PT boats in 1945?  I don't know.  Even if they used
>  something
>  on the old "talk-between-ships" band of 60 to 80 MHz, was it a a TBS?
> I'd
>  suspect
>  that a MBF would be more likely.  The MBF and (IIRC) TBS needs 115 vac or
>  115 vdc.
>  Did a PT boat even have 115 volt power?
>
>  As far as this article written by Admiral Holloway goes, I would bet that
>  the reported
>  radio chatter actually took place on MF/HF, provided by the TCS.  I doubt
>  that a PT
>  had a TBS (or even MBF) as its VHF set.
>
>  It's frustrating that the many sites dedicated to PT boats seem to
>  consider details
>  about the radio gear to be uninteresting technicalities.  In that respect
>  they are
>  just like so many WWII aircraft "restorers" and operators.
>
>  Mike / KK5F
>
>  BTW:  "Naval History" magazine, the source for the article that is being
>  discussed, is
>  a wonderful magazine.  It is published by the US Naval Institute (the
>  professional
>  society for US naval officers).
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