[Antennas] Ground Mounted Vertical Radials

[Billy Cox]

Good question Joe ... the "catch" here is trying to define 
and measure what "good operation" equals ... is that 3 dB
worst, 6 dB worst or ? than a 120 radial ground mounted system.

Do elevated systems work? YES. How well do they work? Depends.

And plese keep in mind HF vs VHF/UHF are different settings.

What works on 2m, as to the actual spacings above ground as 
measured in wavelengths ... is not going to be practical say
on 160m or 80m for most amateur setups. There's the rub ...

Though there is some new and interesting work being done by some 
in the broadcast industry using elevated systems ... many hams, 
after trying elevated radials systems end up going back to the 
30-60 radial ground mounted systems.

I be one of them! B-> While my elevated 80m 4x 'worked' and 
seemed to 'work well' ... comparisons with another local 4x,
that used ground mounted radials ... mine was always behind.

So my next rebuild of the 4x, will use ground mounted radials.

Would I use elevated radials again? If it meant the difference
between operating and not ... sure, but don't expect any 'free
lunches' or miracles. RF engineering is more science than magic.

Hope this helps!

73 de Billy AA4NU

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe <nss at mwt.net>
>Sent: Aug 21, 2008 11:23 PM
>To: Chris Boone <cboone at earthlink.net>
>Cc: 'Jerry' <n6vg at lanset.com>, antennas at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Antennas] Ground Mounted Vertical Radials
>
>I wonder how elevated an elevated system has to be for this to hold 
>true?  I would think it probably would have to be in terms of 
>wavelenghts?  Or at least that would make sence to me..  but could be wrong.
>
>Joe WB9SBD
>
>Chris Boone wrote:
>
>>If you ground mount, you are making a counterpoise...and what you are doing
>>is coupling to the ground through the radials so insulated or non- doesn't
>>matter much...however, if you raise the base 10-30ft OFF ground, you need
>>only 4 radials for good operation..unlike ground mounted which requires MORE
>>radials; the more wire in the ground, the better but elevated, you don't
>>increase much past 4 radials...I have done a multiband vertical with 4 60ft
>>radials and it worked great roof mounted. Check www.cebik.com for best info
>>on antennas...IT IS the definite web site for antenna info. Its free to
>>register...and the antenna info is at
>>http://www.cebik.com/content/radio.html
>>
>>Chris
>>WB5ITT
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: antennas-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>[mailto:antennas-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
>>Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:20 AM
>>To: antennas at mailman.qth.net
>>Subject: [Antennas] Ground Mounted Vertical Radials
>>
>>Please reply off list to     n6vg at lanset.com
>>
>>Should buried radials for a ground mounted vertical
>>be insulated or bare copper wire?  Or does it make
>>any difference which one is used?
>>
>>Thanks.   Jerry N6VG
>>
>>
>>
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>>  
>>
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