[Antennas] Re: Antennas Digest, Vol 9, Issue 19
John and Mary Powell
zl1bhq at paradise.net.nz
Thu Oct 14 06:05:14 EDT 2004
What power levels are we talking about for the "high insertion"losses ?.
----- Original Message -----
From: <antennas-request at mailman.qth.net>
To: <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 9:00 PM
Subject: Antennas Digest, Vol 9, Issue 19
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: inline female coax connector? (Jack Painter)
> 2. Re: HD-73 rotor question (DF3KV)
> 3. Re: HD-73 rotor question (Dan K9ZF)
> 4. Re: inline female coax connector? (David Sher)
> 5. RE: WTB #14 Hard Drawn Single Strong (Merv Stump)
> 6. Re: inline female coax connector? (Bill Aycock)
> 7. Re: [TowerTalk] Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> (Bill Aycock)
> 8. Re: inline female coax connector? (Jack Painter)
> 9. Re[2]: [TowerTalk] Re: [Antennas] inline female coax
> connector? (Elliott Olson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:51:36 -0400
> From: "Jack Painter" <223bthp at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> To: "Antenna List" <Antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <006101c4b14d$49bdf340$aa99fd18 at hr.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Don, we can go with your connector-count, but I wouldn't be sure that
> manufacturer measurements of loss include the PL-259 on *our* coax when
> plugged into *their* connector. In fact I'll be willing to bet they do not
> count your equipment, even though of course it is required to form a
> "connection". That's not being deceptive, it's just not totally honest
> either.
>
> After one connector on the back end of the transceiver, two at the tuner,
> two more at the lightning arrestor, and one more at the balun, that's
enough
> connector-loss in a system for me. There is no way I would add however
many
> more you count when a barrel connector would be used for a "patch cord".
> It's a minimum of three more pieces (loss) that do not have to be there.
>
> 73,
> Jack
>
> > Jack,
> > Can't agree with your count .. nor the loss you infer.
> > First .. there are only TWO additional connections .. yes .. there are
> > three connectors .. two PL-259 and the 'barrel' .. but they make TWO
> > connnections more than direct coax.
> > I'm not the one who did the test .. it was someone else .. about a year
> > or two ago .. and they used good test equipment .. I just stated, from
> > memory, what has previously been posted .. and, I believe, that .5 db
> > loss is HIGHER than what was posted by the experimenter.
> > Fini
> > Don
> > N8DE
> >
> > Jack Painter wrote:
> > > Hi Don, that's a lower number than I ever saw listed for any kind of
> pl-259
> > > type connector. N-connectors have such low loss, not PL-259's.
> > >
> > > Consider that using barrel connectors instead of making a proper
length
> coax
> > > (except for special circumstances, there should be no reason for such
a
> > > permanent connection), it actually adds FOUR pl-259 type connections.
> Two on
> > > the coax ends that would not have to be there, and each side of the
> barrel
> > > connector. I think there is about -5db (or greater) loss from such a
> > > connection, and that is unacceptable for any kind of HF (dx) or
VHF/UHF
> > > reception.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >>Actually ... if properly installed, the insertion loss for the 'barrel
> > >>connector' is less than .5 db ... that has been addressed here before.
> > >>Don
> > >>N8DE
> > >>
> > >>Jack Painter wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>Reading the info on the various coax types.
> > >>>>Keep seeing the references to barrel connectors.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Is there a female coax connector?
> > >>>>I'm only familiar with chassis mount female connectors.
> > >>>>I'm asking about a female that would mate to a pl259.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Bill H. in Chicagoland
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Bill, the barrel connectors are double-ended SO-239 females, intended
> > >>
> > > for
> > >
> > >>>use as a union between two PL-259 male coax lines. Use them for
> > >>
> > > temporary or
> > >
> > >>>emergency patchwork, because the insertion loss in these connectors
is
> > >>
> > > high.
> > >
> > >>>Jack
> > >>>Virginia Beach
> > >>>
> > >>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
"Wireless
> > >>
> > > Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
with
> any
> > > questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >
> > >>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>TowerTalk mailing list
> > >>>TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > >>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:41:07 +0200
> From: "DF3KV" <df3kv at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] HD-73 rotor question
> To: "Elliott Olson" <n0ukf at wiktel.com>, "Mail List for Antennas"
> <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <001e01c4b14e$86bfd1e0$02dcfea9 at ap200>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elliott Olson" <n0ukf at wiktel.com>
> To: "Mail List for Antennas" <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] HD-73 rotor question
>
>
> > Hello Mail,
> >
> > I've been looking and wondering in the past couple years about
> another
> > rotor question.
> > Is anyone using a 12vdc rotor system for portable operations (RV and
> > such). I can't seem to find any in my online searches.
>
>
> I use the Prosistel PST2051 which runs from 12V DC when I operate
> portable
>
> 73
> Peter
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:07:45 -0500
> From: "Dan K9ZF" <n9rla at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] HD-73 rotor question
> To: "Elliott Olson" <n0ukf at wiktel.com>, "Mail List for Antennas"
> <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <004d01c4b160$4e7e18c0$8b02a8c0 at pavilion>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It's much easier to use a "normal" rotator and mate it with a cheap power
> inverter.
>
> I use an AR40 rotator and a Tandy 100 watt inverter for my Rover setup.
> Works great. You may want to test the inverter before you buy it if
> possible, I've heard many produce a lot of RF noise. But I haven't had
any
> problems with mine. Although I have had several laptop dc power supplies
> that were terrible!
>
> 73
> Dan
> K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269
> Check out the Rover Resource Page at: http://www.qsl.net/n9rla
> List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elliott Olson" <n0ukf at wiktel.com>
> To: "Mail List for Antennas" <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] HD-73 rotor question
>
>
> > Hello Mail,
> >
> > I've been looking and wondering in the past couple years about another
> > rotor question.
> > Is anyone using a 12vdc rotor system for portable operations (RV and
> > such). I can't seem to find any in my online searches.
> >
> > Monday, October 11, 2004, 1:57:05 PM, Jim wrote:
> >
> > JI> I have two HD-73 rotors that I picked up at a swap meet last
weekend.
> I
> > JI> am rebuilding both of them but having a problem with something I
found
> > JI> in one of them. There are some pieces of cork in the case and I
dont
> > JI> know where they came from? The look like part of a gasket about 2"
in
> > JI> diameter with a 1" hole in the middle. Also, one of them had a cork
> > JI> gasket between the lower race (the one held on by four screws to the
> > JI> bottom of the upper case) and the upper case. The other did not.
> Were
> > JI> they supposed to have a gasket or was that something the PO
> added?...he
> > JI> also slathered on lots of silicone sealant.
> >
> > JI> Jim W5JAI
> > JI> ______________________________________________________________
> > JI> Antennas mailing list
> > JI> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/antennas
> > JI> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html
> > JI> Post: mailto:Antennas at mailman.qth.net
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Elliott N0UKF mailto:n0ukf at wiktel.com
> > www.qsl.net/n0ukf/
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Antennas mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/antennas
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html
> > Post: mailto:Antennas at mailman.qth.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:02:51 -0500
> From: David Sher <davew9lya at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> To: w9ol at billnjudy.com
> Cc: towertalk at contesting.com, Antennas at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20041013.201311.-159347.1.davew9lya at juno.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Have you tried the free want ads in the Reader
>
>
> Dave W9LYA
> What wrought doG hath?
>
> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:56:45 -0500 "FireBrick" <w9ol at billnjudy.com>
> writes:
> > Reading the info on the various coax types.
> > Keep seeing the references to barrel connectors.
> >
> > Is there a female coax connector?
> > I'm only familiar with chassis mount female connectors.
> > I'm asking about a female that would mate to a pl259.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of
> > mortgage payments.
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Bill H. in Chicagoland
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Antennas mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/antennas
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html
> > Post: mailto:Antennas at mailman.qth.net
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:15:20 -0400
> From: "Merv Stump" <mstump at hvc.rr.com>
> Subject: RE: [Antennas] WTB #14 Hard Drawn Single Strong
> To: "'Jerry'" <n6vg at lanset.com>, <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <005c01c4b19c$11523030$4b5fa118 at Merv>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Home Depot is a bargain if you buy 500 foot spools.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:16:45 -0500
> From: Bill Aycock <baycock at direcway.com>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> To: Jack Painter <223bthp at cox.net>, FireBrick <w9ol at billnjudy.com>,
> TowerTalk List <towertalk at contesting.com>, Antenna List
> <Antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041013220746.02a2de78 at pop3.direcway.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
> Two comments:
> 1. Yes, there is a cable-end equivalent to an SO 238, that matches to a PL
> 239. (I use them, but don't remember the designation)
> 2. I thought the myth of "High insertion loss" had been shot down
> completely (recently, too).
> Bill
>
> At 09:53 AM 10/13/2004 -0400, Jack Painter wrote:
>
>
> > > Reading the info on the various coax types.
> > > Keep seeing the references to barrel connectors.
> > >
> > > Is there a female coax connector?
> > > I'm only familiar with chassis mount female connectors.
> > > I'm asking about a female that would mate to a pl259.
> > >
> > > Bill H. in Chicagoland
> >
> >Bill, the barrel connectors are double-ended SO-239 females, intended for
> >use as a union between two PL-259 male coax lines. Use them for temporary
or
> >emergency patchwork, because the insertion loss in these connectors is
high.
> >
> >Jack
> >Virginia Beach
>
> >Bill Aycock - W4BSG
>
> Woodville, Alabama
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:52:27 -0500
> From: Bill Aycock <baycock at direcway.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> To: Jack Painter <223bthp at cox.net>, FireBrick <w9ol at billnjudy.com>,
> TowerTalk List <towertalk at contesting.com>, Antenna List
> <Antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20041013234322.020c0820 at pop3.direcway.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
> Another comment: Apparently I can't remember the designation of ANY Coax
> fitting. Sorry. At any rate, I use both Male and Female coax cable end
> fittings and "barrel" couplers of various lengths.
> Bill
>
> At 10:16 PM 10/13/2004 -0500, Bill Aycock wrote:
>
>
> >Two comments:
> >1. Yes, there is a cable-end equivalent to an SO 238, that matches to a
PL
> >239. (I use them, but don't remember the designation)
> >2. I thought the myth of "High insertion loss" had been shot down
> >completely (recently, too).
> >Bill
>
> Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> Woodville, Alabama
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:14:11 -0400
> From: "Jack Painter" <223bthp at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] inline female coax connector?
> To: "Antenna List" <Antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <017201c4b1ac$a46b4040$aa99fd18 at hr.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It's all a matter of relativity, Bill! Those that never chased down a 1/2
> decibel speed bump in their system aren't looking for the most their
system
> can offer, and don't care if they add 2 or 3 db loss from unnecessary junk
> in their feedlines or equipment. Those that do, know better. Hobbyists can
> be perfectionists like few professionals in an industry ever experienced.
I
> started in the hobby, and my systems far outperform mil-standards
everytime,
> across the board. I'm new to this newsgroup so I don't know who or what
> so-called myth you think you heard dispelled, but I've been pulling in
> signals many don't know how to for a lot of years, and hand loading 223's
> that follow each other into the same hole too, so I know something about
the
> difference between precision and accuracy. When I gave advice about the
> barrel connectors, I made an accurate statement that the barrel connector
is
> high insertion loss. It is high to me, it won't matter to the scanner
> listening to the police down the street. But someday he wants better
> reception, and you and others may have advanced bad advice about
negligible
> loss from connectors. This hobby is a lot of fun when learning something
> results in success, and I think you are learned enough to know that
> mechanical connections are a weak point in electrical systems, from "DC to
> daylight". They are to be avoided where possible, no matter how skillfully
> the joint is made.
>
> 73,
> Jack Painter
> Virginia Beach
>
> From: "Bill Aycock"
> >
> > Two comments:
> > 1. Yes, there is a cable-end equivalent to an SO 238, that matches to a
PL
> > 239. (I use them, but don't remember the designation)
> > 2. I thought the myth of "High insertion loss" had been shot down
> > completely (recently, too).
> > Bill
> >
> > At 09:53 AM 10/13/2004 -0400, Jack Painter wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > Reading the info on the various coax types.
> > > > Keep seeing the references to barrel connectors.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a female coax connector?
> > > > I'm only familiar with chassis mount female connectors.
> > > > I'm asking about a female that would mate to a pl259.
> > > >
> > > > Bill H. in Chicagoland
> > >
> > >Bill, the barrel connectors are double-ended SO-239 females, intended
for
> > >use as a union between two PL-259 male coax lines. Use them for
temporary
> or
> > >emergency patchwork, because the insertion loss in these connectors is
> high.
> > >
> > >Jack
> > >Virginia Beach
> >
> > >Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> >
> > Woodville, Alabama
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:52:45 -0500
> From: Elliott Olson <n0ukf at wiktel.com>
> Subject: Re[2]: [TowerTalk] Re: [Antennas] inline female coax
> connector?
> To: Antenna List <Antennas at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <303222106.20041013205245 at wiktel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello Antenna,
>
> Is there an IMPROPER way to install a barrel connector?
> I have seen one or two female SO239 inline connectors, but they are
> quite rare... oh, I just remembered, my Radio Shack HTX212 has one of
> these for the antenna connection rather than a chassis mount one.
>
> Wednesday, October 13, 2004, 11:34:03 AM, Don wrote:
>
> DH> Actually ... if properly installed, the insertion loss for the 'barrel
> DH> connector' is less than .5 db ... that has been addressed here before.
> DH> Don
> DH> N8DE
>
> DH> Jack Painter wrote:
> >>>Reading the info on the various coax types.
> >>>Keep seeing the references to barrel connectors.
> >>>
> >>>Is there a female coax connector?
> >>>I'm only familiar with chassis mount female connectors.
> >>>I'm asking about a female that would mate to a pl259.
> >>>
> >>>Bill H. in Chicagoland
> >>
> >>
> >> Bill, the barrel connectors are double-ended SO-239 females, intended
for
> >> use as a union between two PL-259 male coax lines. Use them for
temporary or
> >> emergency patchwork, because the insertion loss in these connectors is
high.
> >>
> >> Jack
> >> Virginia Beach
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Elliott N0UKF mailto:n0ukf at wiktel.com
> www.qsl.net/n0ukf/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Antennas mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/antennas
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html
> Post: mailto:Antennas at mailman.qth.net
>
>
> End of Antennas Digest, Vol 9, Issue 19
> ***************************************
>
>
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