[Antennas] Radials vs salt water question!

Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:12:54 -0500

I dont understand some of the claims either.

 I currently run an Butternut HF-2V with the 160 coil mounted at my seawall which is on salt water. For 15 years I ran it with
radials out in to the salt water. However about 5 years ago I ran tests and the radiation and SWR was the same or better with no
radials so the salt water works wonders for my signal hi.  The HF-2V has been in continuos use for over 20 years.

The so called no radial antennas are a compromise at best. In a mobile or car setup a simple 102 inch whip works well because of the
metal on the car on 80. I tune it with the AH-4.
Bill Marx W2CQ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron & Madhavi" <[email protected]>
To: "David W Sher" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; "Charles Greene" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Antennas] Radials vs salt water question!

> I have operated /MM for 20 years aboard "boats" ranging from 6000 tons DWT
> to 214,000 tonne very large crude oil cariers. If the advantages I see have
> been only "good fishing" (which at 12-20Knots is a myth!) then I don't know
> the secret  why those simple Force12 vertical dipoles at 6Y5A beat a world
> record either!
>
> 73,
> Ron
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Greene <[email protected]>
> To: David W Sher <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Antennas] Radials vs salt water question!
>
>
> > David and all,
> >
> > I live on Narragansett Bay with various antennas within 50' of the
> > water.  I had a 20 meter vertical on the sea wall with two elevated
> > radials, the sea wall being 8' above the salt water at high tide.  The
> > antenna experiences losses if the return path includes the lossy ground,
> > just as it does anywhere, so there's no advantage there.  I measured the
> > loss in the ground return on this antenna, and it was 30 watts in 100
> > watts, which actually was pretty good for only two elevated radials. The
> > advantages of being near sea water is that the losses in the reflection in
> > the Fresnel zone are less, so the vertical angle of transmittion is much
> > lower, like one or two degrees. Check ON4UN's "Low Band Dxing" chapter 9
> > for the best treatment on verticals I have seen.  I have also operated
> > using an insulated back stay on my sail boat.  It works pretty good, and I
> > get good results using 40 watts.  I haven't figured on how to measure the
> > ground loss.  Shortly I will be operating from a 60' ocean going fishing
> > boat.  I haven't decided whether to use my K2 with its antenna tuner QRP
> or
> > go QRO with my K2/100, as the boat has plenty of power.  Probably at first
> > the K2, as we have to carry everything down to Charleston, SC for a trip
> > back to New England.  For an antenna, I probably will just throw a wire
> > over the horizontal section of the mast and bring it into the cabin.
> >
> > At 12:08 AM 1/19/2004, David W Sher wrote:
> > >Salt water in general provides much better fishing than the average
> > >inland site, unless it is on a river or lake.
> > >
> > >Dave          W9LYA
> > >What wrought doG hath?
> > >
> > >On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:19:37 EST [email protected] writes:
> > > > OK heres a question.....How would a ground plane with 4 radials about
> > > > 10 ft
> > > > up  at an inland site compare to a vertical over salt water?
> > > >
> > > > My gut says theyd be the same...but something else tells me salt
> > > > water  has a
> > > > profound effect beyond providing a good ground.
> > > >
> >
> > - - -
> >
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