Joel that was one of the most comprehensive replies that I've ever seen on this. Working in the cell side industry and a brief rain of terror in the broadcasting industry I had forgot about using Penetrox and the JetLube copper stainless steel paste. There is also another one Nolox. We used each product everywhere we could. Those products don't seem to dry up as fast as just common Grease. They seem to stay pliable for a long time.

Just a comment on crimping, if you don't have a good ratchet crimper. Please invest in one. They're not all that expensive now and they're worth every penny. Even with the high prices I think they're still well under 50 bucks. According to the experts crimping to a tinned lug connector it's like bonding the two materials. However I am OCD and like to solder the connectors afterwards just for a better weather seal.

Yes on a religious and a political experience when it comes to this topic. However I consider my grounding just a work in progress. I just don't think you can ever be too good or perfect. Joel's advice is one of the best I'd seen in a long time.

There are two books that John may want to look at and invest in. One is the Grounding and Bonding from Ward Silver. It's in its second edition now and Joe gave away one at the last ADXA meeting. Also there is a download for free on how Motorola grounds their cell sites. That is one of the best papers I've ever seen, but Ward Silver's book covers all the fine points. If you can't find it doing a Google let me know and I will dig that link up for you guys.

Voice to texting today so please forgive typos and hope the storms do not cause any damage. 73 Jay/w5jay..







Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: [email protected]
Date: 12/13/22 6:46 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: 'John McKinnie' <[email protected]>, 'ADXA List' <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ADXA] Radial Connections

Hi John,

A discussion on radials among a group usually winds up at the same level of politics and religion!!!!

You have received some excellent info from Jay and Chuck. Here at W5ZN I have about 12 miles (yes miles!!!) of radial wire under my 160 meter 5 element parasitic transmitting array and quite a bit under my 80 meter 4 square. In the 160 meter array there are 120 radials under each of the five elements and over 1,000 connection points in order to achieve the proper layout of the radial field. I can talk more about that off line or see some details here https://ncjweb.com/features/sepoct18feat.pdf and see a photo of one of the radial plate connections.

I use a DX Engineering stainless steel radial plate underneath each element that utilizes a bolted connection for the radials. I crimp then solder a terminal lug on each radial and bolt it to the plate. That is my preference. There is NOTHING wrong with using a copper wire or pipe as the radial connection point and soldering the radials to it. Several BIG GUNS do just that (Even K3LR who works at DX Engineering doesn't use the plates!)

I use regular solder. Now, understand this is NOT applicable to all locations. As Jay and Chuck have noted the condition of the soil at your location will determine this and mine is based on experience. Some soils are really acidic and will literally dissolve regular solder after a year or two (I've heard reports of six months as well). I first installed my 80 meter 4 square in 2008 and used regular solder on all the connections. Over the years I checked a few of the connections to see how they held up. I have no issue at all here, those connections are still solid. As noted by Jay and Chuck, silver solder is difficult to work with and requires significant attention to detail. It took me two weeks, working every day, to complete the over 1,000 connections on my 160 meter array. If I would have had to use silver solder I'm convinced that time would have been doubled.

If you are going to use a bolted connection for the radials you will have dissimilar metal between the terminal lug and the radial plate. Over time these will develop a surface condition that will deteriorate the conductivity of the joint. Regardless of how tight you make the connection, water will also enter and cause an issue. I used Penatrox for years on bolted joints and on joints when building antennas however over the past four years I now us JetLube SS-30, a pure copper paste made specifically for dissimilar metals and bolted connections that the military and aircraft industry uses. (its not very expensive and a little goes a long way!). You can buy it on Amazon or from DX Engineering.

After I have make a connection I then weather proof the connection with liquid tape or 3M Skotchkote. Liquid tape can begin to degrade after a couple of years. Each year I splash on another coat over the radial plate connections. The 3M Skotchkote is excellent but takes some care to not get it all over you and everything else!

So, just to summarize:

1. If you want to crimp radial connections, also solder them (be safe, wear suspenders and a belt!)

2. The type of solder required is based on the soil conditions at your QTH. For most locations regular solder is fine.

3. There is no superior way to connect radials. A stainless steel radial plate or copper wire/pipe are both very effective as along as the connection is solid and secure.

As a side note, you do NOT have to bury radials. That is a waste of time. I spoke about this during one of my presentations at the ADXA meeting. I can provide additional details if needed.

If you have additional questions I'll be more than pleased to try to answer them. I don't consider myself an expert, just a ham with a ton (maybe 2-tons with the 160 meter array) of experience with radials and know what works here at W5ZN.

This got long but as I said, a discussion on radials is on the same level of politics and religion!

73 Joel W5ZN


On 2022-12-12 17:19, Chuck R. Korzendorfer wrote:

I use crimp on rings & then use regular solder.  I have a stainless steel radial plate with #10-24 SS bolts that the rings bolt to. 
  If I remember correctly from our last meeting at W5ZN's QTH, Joel said you only need silver solder if there are a lot of pine trees around.  Something about the acidity of the soil.  Silver solder is a real pain as you need a different gas (Matt type I think).
Chuck
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Jay Bromley <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 5:27:29 PM
To: 'John McKinnie' <[email protected]>; 'ADXA List' <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ADXA] Radial Connections
 

[External Email]

Hi John,

On some of my stuff while living in Fort Smith I crimped and used silver bearing solder (2%)made by Kester. 

 

Some like to use real silver solder, but you need a torch/flux for that.  For ham radio I think using regular solder is A-OK.  On AM broadcast they use a torch method with real expensive silver solder to withstand heat from a lightning strike and longevity.  Regular solder will turn to a white paste after a while and doesn't like heat from lightning strike too much.  Still regular solder worked for me, but only saw it for a few years after the sod pushed it down 3 inches into the dirt.

 

With today's cad welding that technique may be history?  73 de jay/w5jay..

 

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John McKinnie
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 5:10 PM
To: ADXA List <[email protected]>
Subject: [ADXA] Radial Connections

 

Any one have lessons learned on radial connections that they would be willing to share? (i.e. solder, crimp, no connector but wrap end of radial wire around bolt on radial plate, coating, etc)

 

Thanks,

John

KT4AC


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