[ADXA] mshv issue

Sat Feb 7 22:50:16 EST 2026

If the dead horse hasn't been sufficiently beaten, I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective.

While I understand the concerns about gaming the system, I think there's an interesting question here about what amateur radio is fundamentally about. If our hobby centers on successfully communicating through challenging conditions using the tools and knowledge at our disposal, then operators who find creative (even if unconventional) ways to establish communication could be argued to be working within that broader spirit—even if it doesn't align with traditional gentleman's agreements.

That said, I personally believe the integrity of the hobby is best served by honest, traditional two-way contacts, especially in awards and competitive contexts. As for my own operations, I'll stick to doing things the traditional way and respect the spirit in which these activities were designed.

I will, however, file this knowledge away. In a true emergency or critical communication situation where lives or safety might be at stake, knowing all available methods to establish contact—however imperfect—could prove valuable.

Thanks for fun reads. I'm trying to be ever the optimist!

:)

Jon
KI5UCZ

-------- Original Message --------
On Saturday, 02/07/26 at 17:06 Randell Curtis, W5ZJ via ADXA <adxa at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> One other piece that weighs into this equation is the fault in wsjt-x not decoding "non-standard" calls. A few weeks ago, I had a friend who was calling other dx stations on the same frequency as the KP5. I was a bit confused why he would do this, but neglected to ask him about it even though I probably should have.
>
> A couple weeks later he called me and said "I see you have worked the kp5 on several bands and I have yet to decode hime". It took me a minute to figure out but after a few questions I realized that the kp5 call sign was not in his call3.txt file in wsjt-x. After a minute of figuring out, and another minute of coaching him on adding the kp5 call sign, he suddenly could see the dx, and ended up working him on several bands that day.
>
> A few weeks ago after working the kp5 several times on ft8, he showed up ft4 on 80 meters For some weird reason, my pc and wsjt-x would not decode him. After a few minutes dealing with thiat, it suddenly started decoding. He answered after a few calls, and then wsjt-x would not send his signal report. It was a crazy 20-30 minutes before I got all stable and was able to work him. Someone watching me had to assume that I was a complete idiot...and they would probably have been right.
>
> Sometimes not all is as things seem to be. For the most part, the bad eggs in the hobby are few and far between, but all of us, at the best we can do, will sometimes make a mistake. I know I make my share.
>
> All the best to y'all. Hope to see you in the pile up on 160, and hope you are running the legal limit plus 1 watt so you can work him and get outta the way of my QRP sig. ; )
>
> Have a great evening and good luck.
>
> Randy/W5ZJ
>
> On Sat, 7 Feb, 2026 at 3:08 PM, WB5JJJ <wb5jjj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To: adxa mailing list
>
> I agree with Randy.
>
> Although, I've never (and won't ever be) on a DXP, I can only imagine the QRM that they are hit with. Anything to reduce this would be advantageous to them and the rest of us "little guns" that have no power or near perfect antennae to get through to them.
>
> Once a DXP sends an RR73, typically you are in his log auto-magically. If you receive the RR73 or not, in the DXP's mind, the contact was complete since both stations exchanged a piece of data (signal reports). A done deal. The LiveStream is your indicator to log it and move on, don't bother him again on band/mode, your exchange was recognized. During heavy QSB, it's still a confirmed contact and by seeing you are in his logbook, it's a QRM saver for the DXP as well.
>
> One thing KP5 did mention was to always start with Tx1 as their software (or operator) will ignore Tx2 or Tx3 first calls. I've seen some DXP's request Tx2 as the first call. Confusion to some.
>
> Using PSKReporter, I've seen numerous stateside stations calling for 10, 20 minutes or more and seeing that they are not copying the KP5. Calling in the blind is a major problem for DXP's as they may be hearing/responding to the caller, but no response back. This seems to happen when a DXP is spotted on the Clusters or with KP5, they see what frequencies their radios are tuned to. Everybody starts calling even though they have never heard them.
>
> I still need KP5 on 160, but his 160m installation was iffy from the get-go, so I don't know. 6m was a crazy one however, as the QSB was horrible.
>
> My 5-cents. No pennies.
>
> -----
>
> 73's
> George - WB5JJJ
> HoIP - 100105
> Cell - 479.857.7737
>
> On Sat, Feb 7, 2026 at 1:20 PM Randell Curtis, W5ZJ via ADXA <adxa at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>> In response to the MSHV issue in general, and in specific to no one. In the case of the KP5 and all other dx stations that operate in the same manner, it is my opinion, not that it matters, is that they are doing it as efficiently as possible. They are in control of the QSO. If they log it, it is a good QSO, Livestream immediately just cuts down on the endless QRM that seems to be present when a station like this gets on. At least if you miss the rr73 you can see the livestream. You can compare this to a CW contact in which the sig is always 599. At the end of the day, whether CW or digital, to have a good contact, the times must match within 30 minutes, and both stations must log it. Since you send your signal report 2nd, the dx station is in control of logging and anything you do cannot manipulate that.
>>
>> Do people cheat? Absolutely. Am I going to lose any sleep over it? Absolutley not. What I have seen is that everything is not as exactly as it appears when you are looking at the stream of calls going by on digital. I've seen all kinds of things I perceived as cheating, and have sat and continued to look at the stream of decodes and proved myself wrong.
>>
>> The only completely weird QSO that I have a question about is K0DD had a complete ft8 QSO with the KP5 on 160, about 3 in the morning a couple days ago, when the KP5 was QRT. One thing I know is that she did not make it in his log I wish I had taken a picture of her transmissions. Maybe it was a pirate bootlegging her call.
>>
>> I am on a mission to eliminate the robot stations that I desire to get rid of by adding them to my ignore list. I'm pretty sure VP2MAA is running robot on 160, and also the gentleman in the usa that called cq continuously from midnight to 6 am. This is a sticky subject, and I suppose the station that can be regulated should be regulated.
>>
>> Everyone continue to enjoy the hobby and play fair. The main person you have to be accountable to is yourself.
>>
>> Randy/W5ZJ
>>
>> On Sat, 7 Feb, 2026 at 12:42 PM, David Norris via ADXA <[adxa at mailmanqth.net](mailto:adxa at mailman.qth.net)> wrote:
>>
>> To: ej jones
>> Cc: adxa at mailman.qth.net; w5znjoel at gmail.com
>> The A and K were up a little.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> David A. Norris, K5UZ
>> Director, Delta Division
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2026, at 10:52 AM, EJ Jones <k5ej at outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> I noticed there was a lot of noise on the bands last night too. All my antennas had high noise levels. Guess it was some atmospheric stuff.
>>> EJ
>>>
>>> Get [Outlook for iOS](https://aka.ms/o0ukef)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> From: Jussi Eloranta <eloranta at aa6kj.hopto.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2026 9:46:17 AM
>>> To: EJ Jones <k5ej at outlook.com>
>>> Cc: w5znjoel at gmail.com <w5znjoel at gmail.com>; adxa at mailman.qth.net <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [ADXA] mshv issue
>>>
>>> Many of these scammers are at their radio. Once in a while you see them transmitting the wrong thing :-) A bot won't do that.
>>>
>>> But, yes, there have been documented cases of robo operator software that work every new dxcc entity they find. I know that in Finland one guy got busted for doing this. But that is slightly different topic.
>>>
>>> Jussi (aa6kj)
>>>
>>> Feb 7, 2026 9:25:26 AM EJ Jones <k5ej at outlook.com>:
>>>
>>>> I suspect a lot of these stations have absent operators.
>>>> EJ
>>>>
>>>> Get [Outlook for iOS](https://aka.ms/o0ukef)
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> From: adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net <adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Jussi Eloranta <eloranta at aa6kj.hopto.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2026 8:34:13 AM
>>>> To: w5znjoel at gmail.com <w5znjoel at gmail.com>; adxa at mailman.qth.net <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ADXA] mshv issue
>>>>
>>>> Hi Joel,
>>>>
>>>> On 2/7/26 3:54 AM, w5znjoel at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Happens on 6 meters as well.
>>>>
>>>> 6m propagation goes sometimes in one direction only and this same
>>>> approach can be used :-(
>>>>
>>>>> Its unfortunate, and is a sad indicator of how the integrity of operators
>>>>> has declined.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, this has to stop! I think DX peditions should consider the
>>>> following ASAP:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Modify the mshv software:
>>>> - If R-xx is received from a station that mshv responded to earlier
>>>> within e.g. 3 minutes then send back R and log QSO.
>>>> - If R-xx is received from a station that mshv responded to earlier
>>>> longer than 3 minutes ago, do not log the QSO & reset QSO state.
>>>> - If R-xx message is received at any point from a station that mshv did
>>>> not respond to within 15 minutes, blacklist the station for 48 hours &
>>>> possibly publish the offender information.
>>>>
>>>> 2) FT8 QSOs should not use livestream at all or at minimum implement 15
>>>> min delay in publishing the data.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Do not publish radio control data (like KP5 does). This blind calling
>>>> business seemed to start immediately when they saw that the radio is on
>>>> a given band.
>>>>
>>>> Jussi (aa6kj)
>>>>
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>>>
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