[ADXA] Radial Connections

Tue Dec 13 14:48:49 EST 2022

Thanks Jay. As I noted, I do not consider myself an expert by any means, 
just a ham with a lot of radial related experience. I continue to study, 
implement some ideas, gain experience and then write about it. I also 
learn more when I receive feedback on some of the things I write (some 
of which is to not listen to some of the folks who provide 
feedback!!!!).

ZN

On 2022-12-13 11:10, jayw5jay wrote:

> Joel that was one of the most comprehensive replies that I've ever seen 
> on this. Working in the cell side industry and a brief rain of terror 
> in the broadcasting industry I had forgot about using Penetrox and the 
> JetLube copper stainless steel paste. There is also another one Nolox. 
> We used each product everywhere we could. Those products don't seem to 
> dry up as fast as just common Grease. They seem to stay pliable for a 
> long time.
> 
> Just a comment on crimping, if you don't have a good ratchet crimper. 
> Please invest in one. They're not all that expensive now and they're 
> worth every penny. Even with the high prices I think they're still well 
> under 50 bucks. According to the experts crimping to a tinned lug 
> connector it's like bonding the two materials. However I am OCD and 
> like to solder the connectors afterwards just for a better weather 
> seal.
> 
> Yes on a religious and a political experience when it comes to this 
> topic. However I consider my grounding just a work in progress. I just 
> don't think you can ever be too good or perfect. Joel's advice is one 
> of the best I'd seen in a long time.
> 
> There are two books that John may want to look at and invest in. One is 
> the Grounding and Bonding from Ward Silver. It's in its second edition 
> now and Joe gave away one at the last ADXA meeting. Also there is a 
> download for free on how Motorola grounds their cell sites. That is one 
> of the best papers I've ever seen, but Ward Silver's book covers all 
> the fine points. If you can't find it doing a Google let me know and I 
> will dig that link up for you guys.
> 
> Voice to texting today so please forgive typos and hope the storms do 
> not cause any damage. 73 Jay/w5jay..
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: w5zn at w5zn.org
> Date: 12/13/22 6:46 AM (GMT-06:00)
> To: 'John McKinnie' <kt4ac at att.net>, 'ADXA List' <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [ADXA] Radial Connections
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> A discussion on radials among a group usually winds up at the same 
> level of politics and religion!!!!
> 
> You have received some excellent info from Jay and Chuck. Here at W5ZN 
> I have about 12 miles (yes miles!!!) of radial wire under my 160 meter 
> 5 element parasitic transmitting array and quite a bit under my 80 
> meter 4 square. In the 160 meter array there are 120 radials under each 
> of the five elements and over 1,000 connection points in order to 
> achieve the proper layout of the radial field. I can talk more about 
> that off line or see some details here 
> https://ncjweb.com/features/sepoct18feat.pdf and see a photo of one of 
> the radial plate connections.
> 
> I use a DX Engineering stainless steel radial plate underneath each 
> element that utilizes a bolted connection for the radials. I crimp then 
> solder a terminal lug on each radial and bolt it to the plate. That is 
> my preference. There is NOTHING wrong with using a copper wire or pipe 
> as the radial connection point and soldering the radials to it. Several 
> BIG GUNS do just that (Even K3LR who works at DX Engineering doesn't 
> use the plates!)
> 
> I use regular solder. Now, understand this is NOT applicable to all 
> locations. As Jay and Chuck have noted the condition of the soil at 
> your location will determine this and mine is based on experience. Some 
> soils are really acidic and will literally dissolve regular solder 
> after a year or two (I've heard reports of six months as well). I first 
> installed my 80 meter 4 square in 2008 and used regular solder on all 
> the connections. Over the years I checked a few of the connections to 
> see how they held up. I have no issue at all here, those connections 
> are still solid. As noted by Jay and Chuck, silver solder is difficult 
> to work with and requires significant attention to detail. It took me 
> two weeks, working every day, to complete the over 1,000 connections on 
> my 160 meter array. If I would have had to use silver solder I'm 
> convinced that time would have been doubled.
> 
> If you are going to use a bolted connection for the radials you will 
> have dissimilar metal between the terminal lug and the radial plate. 
> Over time these will develop a surface condition that will deteriorate 
> the conductivity of the joint. Regardless of how tight you make the 
> connection, water will also enter and cause an issue. I used Penatrox 
> for years on bolted joints and on joints when building antennas however 
> over the past four years I now us JetLube SS-30, a pure copper paste 
> made specifically for dissimilar metals and bolted connections that the 
> military and aircraft industry uses. (its not very expensive and a 
> little goes a long way!). You can buy it on Amazon or from DX 
> Engineering.
> 
> After I have make a connection I then weather proof the connection with 
> liquid tape or 3M Skotchkote. Liquid tape can begin to degrade after a 
> couple of years. Each year I splash on another coat over the radial 
> plate connections. The 3M Skotchkote is excellent but takes some care 
> to not get it all over you and everything else!
> 
> So, just to summarize:
> 
> 1. If you want to crimp radial connections, also solder them (be safe, 
> wear suspenders and a belt!)
> 
> 2. The type of solder required is based on the soil conditions at your 
> QTH. For most locations regular solder is fine.
> 
> 3. There is no superior way to connect radials. A stainless steel 
> radial plate or copper wire/pipe are both very effective as along as 
> the connection is solid and secure.
> 
> As a side note, you do NOT have to bury radials. That is a waste of 
> time. I spoke about this during one of my presentations at the ADXA 
> meeting. I can provide additional details if needed.
> 
> If you have additional questions I'll be more than pleased to try to 
> answer them. I don't consider myself an expert, just a ham with a ton 
> (maybe 2-tons with the 160 meter array) of experience with radials and 
> know what works here at W5ZN.
> 
> This got long but as I said, a discussion on radials is on the same 
> level of politics and religion!
> 
> 73 Joel W5ZN
> 
> On 2022-12-12 17:19, Chuck R. Korzendorfer wrote:
> 
>> I use crimp on rings & then use regular solder.  I have a stainless 
>> steel radial plate with #10-24 SS bolts that the rings bolt to.
>> If I remember correctly from our last meeting at W5ZN's QTH, Joel said 
>> you only need silver solder if there are a lot of pine trees around.  
>> Something about the acidity of the soil.  Silver solder is a real pain 
>> as you need a different gas (Matt type I think).
>> Chuck
>> 
>> Get Outlook for iOS [1]
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> From: adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net <adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on 
>> behalf of Jay Bromley <jayw5jay at cox.net>
>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 5:27:29 PM
>> To: 'John McKinnie' <kt4ac at att.net>; 'ADXA List' 
>> <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [ADXA] Radial Connections
>> 
>> [External Email]
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> On some of my stuff while living in Fort Smith I crimped and used 
>> silver bearing solder (2%)made by Kester.
>> 
>> Some like to use real silver solder, but you need a torch/flux for 
>> that.  For ham radio I think using regular solder is A-OK.  On AM 
>> broadcast they use a torch method with real expensive silver solder to 
>> withstand heat from a lightning strike and longevity.  Regular solder 
>> will turn to a white paste after a while and doesn't like heat from 
>> lightning strike too much.  Still regular solder worked for me, but 
>> only saw it for a few years after the sod pushed it down 3 inches into 
>> the dirt.
>> 
>> With today's cad welding that technique may be history?  73 de 
>> jay/w5jay..
>> 
>> From: adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net <adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On 
>> Behalf Of John McKinnie
>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 5:10 PM
>> To: ADXA List <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: [ADXA] Radial Connections
>> 
>> Any one have lessons learned on radial connections that they would be 
>> willing to share? (i.e. solder, crimp, no connector but wrap end of 
>> radial wire around bolt on radial plate, coating, etc)
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> KT4AC
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