[ADXA] By Cezar, VE3LYC, Deputy General Manager and Operations Manager (IOTA)

Mon Oct 25 11:44:37 EDT 2021

I'm not interested enough to dig into the technical details of how Dom or
anyone else operated FT8 on a DXpedition, but unless it was a fully robotic
operation (running by itself while the operator sleeps) then it couldn't be
much different from what hams have been doing for decades.  SO2R operation
on CW and RTTY  is the norm in contests.  I remember when AA5AU did SO3R in
a RTTY contest - one operator, 3 radios.  The ultimate, though, is 2BSIQ
(Two bands, single op, interleaved QSO's.)  N6MJ perfected this and he is
basically transmitting continuously on alternating radios interleaving CQ
and exchange transmissions.  Sure, he uses macros to send CW except for
typing in the call signs, but it is still an extraordinary accomplishment
to be able to do it.  MJ and KL9A challenge each other on contest
simulations and I think the last high score I saw was 82 QSO's FOR 10
MINUTES!!!!   Folks, that would mean almost 500 Q's in an hour with one
operator.   Could FT8 do that?  Maybe.  Should 2BSIQ be banned?  N6MJ
typically does this in a 48 hour DX contest and I suspect sleeping hours
are either slim or none.  I think the norm is about 12,000 Q's for the
contest and that is a rate of 250 per hour if he doesn't take any time
off.  To up the ante, I think there is generally a third radio to check
other bands for openings.  One operator.

I'm not going to analyze different ways of operating FT modes, and maybe
they can already do it, but if anyone figures out a way for a single
operator to make 500 Q's on digital modes in an hour, or 12,000 in a 48
hour weekend, more power to them!

Dennis

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 10:23 AM Jay Bromley <jayw5jay at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi San,
>
> Good to see you at the OWS meeting last Saturday!
>
>
>
> I read the whole article and still don’t really don’t know what the fuss
> is about?  On Contest and DX stations they might have the equipment to do
> this multiple stream/bands as they have separate antennas and bandpass
> filters, stubs, etc.  For nearly 99.9% of digital ops from their modest
> home stations this is never going to happen.  Even though there are some
> that proved you could automate their stations on one band, these guys are
> very few among us digital ops.  The software is not free or easy to set
> up.  Even the ones that are doing automation, I seriously doubt they are
> running multiple bands or streams.  Setting up multiple instances of the
> software on one computer for me is a nightmare.
>
>
>
> From as far as I can remember and even before my time in the hobby, there
> has always been folks crying foul about technology, going from spark to CW,
> AM to SSB, using packet DX clusters, RBNs and S02R on contests.  Now look
> at DXClusters, RBNs, and SO2R, they are now the norm in amateur radio and
> contesting.  Technology I believe is just going to move on, not regress.
>
>
>
> When I am running stations only on FT8 I will look up the stations bios on
> QRZ.com via JTAlert.  That is easy to do with one mouse click.  I enjoy
> reading the bios while working stations and most have pictures of their
> stations.  I rarely see any station that has the ability to do what that
> article is talking about.  To make it workable one would have to have a
> separate rig/amp/antenna, bandpass filters on each band.  Expeditions have
> this kind of gear, but top expeditions have also have many ops.
>
>
>
> F/H is very hard on equipment when you use several streams on one band.
> Now I only see two to three streams at the most in F/H.  They at one time
> had the ability to do 5 streams I think, but most solid state amps had a
> hard time dealing with that many streams.  Amateur gear for the most part
> is ICAS, not CCS.  Except for SDR rigs like the Flex, not sure one could do
> multiple bands at the same time without separates.  On the Flex you could
> receive multiple bands without too much trouble and then go back to the
> station of interests much like SO2R.
>
>
>
> Speaking of SO2R, many RTTY stations can and do more than one band for
> hours on end with little breaks except for what the rules say to use for
> break periods.  So I am not sure what the IOTA group was seeing and really
> probably shouldn’t be commenting as I don’t know all the facts.  Like they
> even said, do not read too much into their decision!
>
>
>
> I think Dave Norris said a few months back, there are already rules in
> DXCC for no automated stations.  I think the DXCC has pretty good Integrity
> including the digital modes!
>
>
>
> IMHO like I told Dave, I don’t think this is not much of a problem except
> for some loving to jack folks up that don’t use these digital modes that
> are mostly CW and SSB ops.  We all hear stories of folks saying they went
> to going to bed and got up the next morning discovered they worked DXCC on
> a band overnight.  My own opinion is that is pure BS and fake news for
> 99.9% of the digital ops out there.  I am sure the next story will be they
> worked 5BDXCC overnight soon.
>
>
>
> Maybe I am just plain stupid or didn’t understand the article, but I don’t
> see the ARRL doing anything unless there is one op, working for days on
> several bands without a rest.  Most DX Expeditions have several ops and I
> don’t see them doing anything automated, but I could be wrong.  Myself I
> would love to see actual proof of someone breaking the rules.  The money
> spent on these top expeditions I doubt they are going to risk being
> disqualified breaking the rules.
>
>
>
> We all know there has always been some pushing the boundaries, but that
> only affects them.  For me I am proud doing it the right way.  Some really
> good contesters could do a couple of days without sleep and easily do
> multiple radios, but beyond that I am agree that would have to be looked at
> by any group doing the awards.  However the folks making these decisions
> IMHO need to be active on the mode to really know what they are talking
> about.  You can read all you want on the subject and not get the full
> picture on what is happening or going on.
>
>
>
> Like for 30 years I thought I knew all about DXing and thought it was lame
> part of the hobby!  One day K5UR told me I would never know what the fuss
> was about until I got involved.  He was right, I didn’t know squat about
> DXing and some would say I still don’t, hi.
>
>
>
> One last irony in all this, some folks think the new FT modes are too hard
> to learn, but at the same time we are talking about how easy it is for the
> technology masses to cheat.  Again I don’t think so or we have many within
> our ranks cheating.  I think what folks should do is get on the mode, learn
> it and then see for yourself.  While I think modes like FT modes are great,
> they have their own learning curve just like SSB and CW.
>
>
>
> The bottom line if you don’t have the eyes on the screen you will lose an
> ATNO!  The time I spent writing this I could have been on 10/12m working
> some new countries, hi.
>
>
>
> 73 de w5jay/jay..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net <adxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net> *On
> Behalf Of *Sandy Hutson
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:43 PM
> *To:* adxa at mailman.qth.net
> *Subject:* [ADXA] By Cezar, VE3LYC, Deputy General Manager and Operations
> Manager (IOTA)
>
>
>
> The below is from the comments coming from VE3LYC, Deputy GM and
> Operations Manager for IOTA. Read it. He brings up a valid concern for some
> of the *advancing technical digital modes and potential operational
> habits. *. . .
>
>  *Quite a few of you asked about the above rule. The IOTA Team is aware
> that technology is now available to allow an operator to manage multiple
> streams of digital data which helps him to make contacts **simultaneously* *on
> multiple bands**. This raises a number of questions for award management
> teams. One of these is for how long can a solo operator do this
> continuously without leaving the equipment making contacts? What is the
> length of time that someone can operate nonstop in this way, without taking
> even a tiny bit of a break for sleep? Is it 48 hours, 60 hours, 72 hours,
> 84 hours, 96 hours, or more? Rule C.3.10 needs to be read with this in
> mind.*
>
>
>
> Food for thought for all ham operators, especially those advancing in the
> new digital mode operational techniques, including chasing QSOs for band
> modes, etc…  The ARRL might place restrictions on this type of operation
> techniques for their DX awards.. Anyway, good article by Cezar in the
> DXWorld.net web….
>
> San YY
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ADXA mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/adxa
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ADXA at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/adxa/attachments/20211025/0b7fface/attachment-0001.html>