[ADXA] Good deep knowledge, John...

Wed Aug 11 10:19:41 EDT 2021

John.. 
If I were to have gotten on the FT modes 3-4 years ago I am sure I would still be asking you and Jay about ‘what the heck is going on’ with my not working anyone.. Complicated for me but part of your deep inner desire to be able to tackle all issues when you are on that mode. Others miss out on the contact by not knowing the quick solutions to address. LOL  Great info for our FT8 users on the ADXA or anyone for that matter who likes the new digital modes.
San YY

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From: John Evans
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 2:37 AM
To: Jay Bromley
Cc: Sandy Hutson; ADXA List
Subject: Re: [ADXA] The RTTY count.

All,

Well, I just could not sit here any longer....

RTTY has also been my first and only love when it came to Amateur Radio.   I started out with a Model 15 Teletype and CV-89 Converter back in the late 60s.   Later moved up to a HAL ST-5, but it never worked as well as the CV-89.   Yes, I even used a TI-99/4A and Kantronics Interface for RTTY in the early to mid 80s.  San, thanks for the RTTY History Lesson.

I appreciate everyone giving FT8/FT4 a fair shake in the comments.  Here is my 2 cents worth in reference to increasing the sensitivity of WSJT-X by reducing the your receive bandwidth.

Like I said, I just can't be a bystander any longer.   Yes, decreasing your Receiver's Bandwidth will slightly improve WSJT-X's sensitivity.   But, if you are adjusting your Receiver's Bandwidth, there are also a couple of other WSJT-X operational parameters that you need to tweak on at the same time.   Under Menu->File->Settings->Advanced you might want to bump up the Random Erasure Patterns setting up a step or two. The values of 6 or 7 work for most cases.   The sensitivity increases as this number goes higher.   The same holds true with the Aggressive Decoding Parameter.  Zero is the default, as you go up to 3 you will see an improvement in the sensitivity.  

So just adjusting your Receiver's Bandwidth is only a part of the overall adjustment to improve sensitivity.   There are several authorities on the subject, but here is a rule of thumb procedure to follow if you want to tweak the sensitivity of WSJT-X for pulling out the extremely weak signals.

A.  First off, make sure your time is exact.   Not just within a 10th of a second but 100th of a second or more.

B.   Adjust the "Random Erasure Patterns" to a number higher than six or seven.

C.   Adjust the "Aggressive-Decoding Level" to three or higher.

D.   This is the tweaking section of this procedure.   Watch the Band Activity Window very carefully, if you are receiving bad decodes, then reduce the "Aggressive Decoding Level" by a factor of 1.

E.  If you have reduced the "Aggressive Decoding Level" to zero and you are still receiving bad or inaccurate decodes then reduce the "Random Erasure Patterns" by one bump the "Aggressive Decoding Level" back to the value you started with in this procedure.   The Maximum value is 10.  Only you can determine the happy medium of acceptable bad decodes and maximum sensitivity.

Every receiver is different, so your numbers will be different from others.   With the reduction of your Receiver's Bandwidth and ths check and adjust procedure you will see an improvement in the Sensitivity of WSJT-X when using FT8/FT4.  Line Noise and/or Background noise will skew your results.

The JTDX software package has made several under the hood sensitivity improvements.   Many stations have performed side by side comparisons with WSJT-X and JTDX on very weak stations.   They do this by running both copies on the same machine decoding the exact same data streams.   Several individuals have reported more "Weak Station" decodes with JTDX.   

Use at your own risk, always write down the original values.   But when everyone in 5-Land is working the P5 running Fox/Hound Mode except you, it might be worth a try.  At least you will easily know if you are having false decodes, everyone in the world will be calling P5 with the reference call sign for you to make your adjustments against.

-John

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 10:01 PM Jay Bromley <jayw5jay at cox.net> wrote:
Hi San,
Those RTTY confirmations of yours are pretty darn good totals!  In fact you blew by my overall DXCC stats for a while.  I will never catch up to you on RTTY which is now the Digital Award.  I might some day on using other digital modes like FT8, but I have a long ways to go!  I didn’t do many band/modes when I first started DXing in the 90s, but I loved to do RTTY contests.  Now I wished I had push hard on that mode as well.  Even with FT8 I think I am only hovering around 250 confirmed on Digital?  Most of that was RTTY doing contests or chasing DXexpeditions.  

I do have the RTTY DXCC and it is a very nice award!  It is around here somewhere, but can’t seem to find it since the move to NWA.  If I remember right was signed by Joel, which was cool to me.  I always enjoy getting paper signed by them, from the big guns, while guys are the ARRL president.  😊  The new paper awards are simply fantastic!  I don’t know who designed the ones with the Blue background, but they are worth getting IMHO.

BTW, I think Charles W5JE down in Fort Smith got over the Honor Roll mark when it was RTTY DXCC award?  If he didn’t he was very close!  That was a nice accomplishment since that mode (RTTY) doesn’t have the weak signal ability like WSJT-X modes!  Plus filtering was everything on that mode!  

73 de jay..

From: Sandy Hutson <k5yy1 at cox.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 8:28 PM
To: Jay Bromley <jayw5jay at cox.net>; 'ADXA List' <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: My final comments Jay and discussing what I missed by FT modes not coming out earlier for me to enjoy 

Great explanations Jay.  Glad we have so little actual DX to report to our ADXA during these times, so we can discuss peripheral things on our website as it relates to each of our DXing radio hobby experiences and ideas. I shall not ask someone to not do this or that, just as I would not have wanted them telling me what to do over the past 65 years in pursuing my own interests, mainly DXing and DXpeditions! I WILL SAY, that had FT modes come out many years ago, I am sure I would have been in the mix to keep working more digital modes and outdo the RTTY “only” count. But it didn’t happen, and it’s too late for me at this point in my life.. ☹..
   I really hated it when I got stuck on RTTY and very few ‘new ones’ came up because guys were going to the new enterprising modes in the FT4/8 group and WJST systems were updating so fast. I got to 325 on RTTY alone and started that mode in 2011, so I chased in earnest for 8 years before the newer FT modes came out. Just informed Pat VY recently about my probable final total for RTTY (my only digital mode) being now at 321. The other 4 I worked on RTTY  have not sent a card after my trying hard the past 18 months to track down those 4 guys again and send another card with $, etc. NO MORE.   
   Appears my RTTY is at its final # of 321. If I had gotten on FT8 I guess I would have worked another few digital stations and worked towards 330 or so. I should have gotten my RTTY DXCC before it was discontinued as a specific DXCC award, but I just did not want another certificate in a plastic display envelope sitting around in a drawer. My QSLs were already here, so no need to prove things; and the same with stopping my multiband DXCC at 5B DXCC in the 1976 timeframe, before 30/17 and 12m WARC bands ever started!! 
   Got 160m DXCC award in 1980 (6 bands DXCC) and could have gone for 7-9 Band DXCC I guess but decided to not put out the effort of filling out forms again and again. Did stop with my 7th band DXCC on 6m in Feb. 2012… It was special for me to have 6 and 160m DXCCs on the wall, one on each end of the 10 band spectrum. 😃  The cards are here for the WARC band DXCCs but just not mentally up to doing more paperwork over and over again. I have nothing to prove to myself as in the early DXing days many decades ago. Been there and done that. Just trying to enjoy the hobby as time permits nowadays. 
  My interests Jay, as you know, are being a dad and grand father to my family. That is my true heritage and legacy in life. My final step will be becoming a great grandfather soon! Hi
Again, good discussion Jay and hope more actual DXing stuff to report later this week … 
This will be my last observations for a while and free up space for others to share their hobby with us if they like. 
San Hutson  K5YY   formerly K(n)5QHS from 1957 to 77… K5QHS has never been re-issued and two of my car tags are K5YY and K5QHS… happy about that when I get honked at on long trips and find out it was a ham I had just passed!! HI
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From: Jay Bromley
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 6:11 PM
To: 'ADXA List'
Subject: Re: [ADXA] Good comment and surely the ADXA FT mode users knowexactly what you are talking about...

Hi San and all,
Well in a way WSJT-X is much the same, but different at the same time.  Like in CW you don’t really know where the DX is listening at when he sends “UP”.  As a DXer becomes more advanced one could use CW Skimmer, the bandscope or use the second receiver while carefully tuning to locate where they are receiving.  As you know they can or cannot have a pattern to the next RX frequency they listen on.  However on FT8 you will print them no matter what frequency they are on and visa-versa!  As long as you have the RX bandwidth set to wide filter.  In fact you can move your receive and transmit all over the place and print each other.  Each mode has it’s advantages.  I learn very quickly that if one is going to move up the DXCC ladder they need to be ready on all modes!  There is always that ATNO that comes on using the mode you can’t get one with.  

FT8 Time consuming?  Well it depends on what you are trying to do.  As you go up on the totals like everything else the “pickens” gets slimer over time in each mode.  However for a newbie using FT8 that is Elmered, they can and do work DXCC in less than a few weeks.  In one case I know of in less than a week!  I routinely work 60 stations in one sitting.  Then sometimes I get bored running stations on FT8 and go to SSB or CW.  In the winter months I will go to AM.  Joel has done a few drive-bys on 80m when I am on AM.  

There are several reasons I can think of for the popularity of FT8, than just being a weak signal mode or a station without a good antenna system.  One reason the digital ops have always been more on LOTW than any other mode.  I saw this from the old RTTY days when LOTW came online.  Makes sense since the digital guys are using a computer and don’t fear their use.  Unlike in the old days when RTTY ops were using terminals or the rig’s decoder with keyboard like in the Icom rigs.  BTW, when I started LOTW I was lucky to have 1/3 confirmation rate.  Now I am at 75% confirmation rate!  Wow talk about a change in DXing since LOTW started.  

My comment on “working hard” while getting them into the log was merely my way of humor.  Like many on roundtables and old fart Nets, most do not do digital at all, but always express an opinion that is usually wrong or a half truth!  They  promote digital as merely computers talking to each other.  The best line I love to hear at big gathering/forums, which IMO is totally false>>> “I got on FT8 and went to bed.  The next morning I got up and had worked 100 countries.”  That my friends is FAKE NEWS or as we say here BS!  Could DXCC be achieved in less than a day? I guess anything is possible with a fully automated station, but that would include everything from changing bands, antennas, beam headings, and making sure things like your amplifier is happy.  Not to mention tweaking the software to do this!  As WSJT-X comes out of the box that is not doable!  While one can automate the WSJT-X modes, it is against the ARRL DXCC rules and if you are not starring at the screen there are too many things that can go wrong which may cause you NOT to get in the other station’s log.  IMHO, the number of the ones abusing the system is so low it is hardly worth mentioning.

To make the WSJT-X modes more interesting for me I use JTAlert with WSJT-X which makes all this even more enjoyable.  In some ways it is much like Wack-A-Mole game, I try to clear the board just for fun making contacts or having my own run.  Earl, Joel, and other ADXA members here will tell you that it is much like being on your own DXexpedition in that you are the “wanted” station.  Seems like Indonesia, Japan, and the Philippines will fight over a AR contact!  Even late at night on 15m.  Ditto for Russian states and for a new DXer this is “Too Cool”.  Then there is the info on the new JTA software that is available on the fly.  No where can you hover the cursor and get more useful info!  Like S/N, Country, are they on LOTW, EQSL, what ITU zone, CQ Zone, Grid Square, Distance in miles/km, Bearing, DXCC number, Differential time, etc.  I am sure there are a few I am leaving off.  So for the curious or those that love to study prop, well another very useful tool.  

Still another program I use is Gridtracker that not only shows the signal path, but where exactly your signal is landing.  Now to be honest we really never know the real path our signal takes, but GT is good showing your signal going over the pole into Asia or Russia.  Showing you where that country is without looking it up.  I tried to find a video demoing all three, but all I could find are ones doing setups.  Here is one link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQWWVBysb0  That station must not be using a big antenna as he is mainly seeing only US stations.  I showed a JTA, GT and WSJT-X a few weeks back during a JA opening.  With all these programs one can make them even better over time and do even more useful things.  I am barely touching the tip of the iceberg!  

So there are some more examples of why FT8 is very popular with 70% plus of the ham community and I don’t see it changing with new technology coming online like with the new JTA software.  With every mode, there is an artform to it over time.  I have thousands of FT8 contacts and still learning new tricks nearly every day I am on the air.  

BTW, I do the reverse on the new digital ops if they get to bragging to much on their accomplishments.  I will tell them how lucky they are compared to using CW and more so on the phone modes when it comes to DXing.  I will say something like:  “The DXers at the top worked for the contacts by putting up big antennas and having good technique”.  There is no substitute for those even with WSJT modes.  Still those were better solar cycles for the most part.  Sadly the new hams have never seen and may not ever see those condition in our lifetime.  

Anyway some may find the info useful and others are rolling their eyes by now.  Back to chasing DX on any mode I can find them on!  😊  

73 de jay/w5jay..

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