[ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8

Mon Aug 9 21:12:50 EDT 2021

George and John (BHS) have refined their FT8 operating habits and both have impressive records to show for it.  In fact, both have given a lot of help to folks like the one I was talking about who keeps his BW at 2.1 Khz.  Also, people like me……

Dennis

> On Aug 9, 2021, at 6:47 PM, WB5JJJ <wb5jjj at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm going to add my 2p to the topic for a totally non-technical view.
> 
> I have my BW set to 3.6 because it more accurately relates to my abilities to work the so-called "weak" stations.  
> 
> If I see someone say at -20, I know my chances of working him are either slim or none.  Narrowing my BW would not help him receive me at all as I figure his BW is also set wide.  I'm probably down further in the mud on his side for sure since I've only got 5 elements at 35' on 6m and ~90w.  One thing that is a major factor is QSB and propagation one direction or the other which adds a whole other level of what's going on, or not.  Just saying.  
> 
> But Joel's elaborate description is 100% on point.  I know some folks that need to see it, mostly new hams that have never experienced a solar cycle yet when things really get wild for all bands/modes, I can't wait.  It will probably be my last one, I hope it's better than predicted as I want to "go out with a bang".  
> 
> 73's
> George - WB5JJJ
> 
> 
> 4
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:05 PM Sandy Hutson <k5yy1 at cox.net> wrote:
>> I have clearly stated in the past year, that the -5 to 0 dB range on being heard on CW would depend on narrowing the bandwidth down from 2 or 1.5 kc to perhaps 800-500 and for sure improve hearing at 300 cycles. No issues with that. And the same on the SSB side of the banter. Go from 2.8-2.5 bandwidth to 2.0 and you can hear weaker signals better and if you go to 1.5 width on SSB, you can hear but, yes, weaker, but you can hear. So, when someone posts a +dB in spotting a station on FT8, I KNOW they can be heard on properly bandwidth CW and even SSB at times. I did not mean to delve into the deep side of a discussion of a guy being heard if he went to CW or SSB on CE0… IIWII
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And we are not sure what width the FT8 reporting station may be using but if they report hearing in the 0 to + dB area, I can hear them on CW very narrow width. Have done it in the past and I do use the reported dB from DX Summit or on the ADXA site as to if better than 0 dB… I will not guess what bandwidth they are using but the narrower you go, you can expect the signal to go down but readability go up many times.  I do not try to explain the FT8 system per se, just know what dB report can or can not be heard on CW.. Everyone knows that a narrowing of the bandwidth of a station on CW or even SSB will lessen the strength and you gotta listen a bit harder, but you can remove the “side” stronger QSO crud going on and maybe copy a CW station at a 519 but not a great QSO at 279 with loud side chatter, clutter or steady key down audio from an idiot. And on CW you can go to the opposite sideband, like from listening in the USB position to the LSB position, etc etc etc… To each his own way of tuning. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Nuff for now. Still wish the guy would go to CW at least while on CE0 but appears he is FT8 only.
>> San
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>>  
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: w5zn at w5zn.org
>> Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 5:31 PM
>> To: ADXA List
>> Subject: Re: [ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> OK folks.....let's all understand what the "dB" SNR reading on an FT8 signal means. It means NOTHING...absolutely NOTHING!!!. It is a signal to noise ratio however it takes in to account the signal compared to the noise of the entire bandwidth your radio is set to plus all of the other signals in that bandwidth.
>> 
>> You can actually change that number on your radio and make it extremely higher if you want to brag (DX'ers brag???) about how strong someone is at your station by running a simple test to prove the point. The next time you see a signal that is -15 to -20 dB, reduce your bandwidth to 500 Hz or so and center it on the station you are copying. For example, if the station has a DF of 1250 Hz, reduce the filter bandwidth and then center it at 1250 Hz and see what happens!!! That "dB" number will jump up to 0 or plus something. Its simple math and the reason we reduce our filter bandwidths on CW.
>> 
>> So, it is a meaningless number. If a station is at 0 dB  you may hear the signal or you may not. Don't hang your hat on that number. In fact, completely IGNORE it!!!
>> 
>> Why doesn't that station go down to CW or SSB?? Several reasons that may include:
>> 
>> 1. They don't know CW and don't care to learn it (and never will) but love amateur radio and want to get on the air.
>> 
>> 2. On SSB they "could" work more stations if the op was good and the pileup were tame. Most likely it won't be and the op doesn't want to attempt to manage an unruly pileup on SSB. On FT8 the op can easily manage it as he/she wants. Not all DX ops are good pileup managers.
>> 
>> FT8 is good for amateur radio. All of us "old dogs" like me can complain all we want but the reason there is so much activity on FT8 is it is an easy mode to learn and to get on the air with. That means more activity and more DX.
>> 
>> I personally know of three hams right here in Arkansas that never had any interest in HF and DX but they tried FT8, actually got on the air somewhere other than a 2 meter repeater or the 75 meter morning medical grumbling frequency and have now completed a DXCC. Two of them are joining ADXA.....another PLUS!!!! They're consumed with HF and DX'ing now.
>> 
>> Enough of my sermon for the day.......the ADXA offering plate will be passed shortly !!!!
>> 
>> You all know what to do, regardless of the mode or band........GET IN THERE AND WORK 'EM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> 
>> 73 Joel W5ZN
>> 
>> CW Forever, DX Forever and ANY MODE forever if I can use it to work a new one and beat out N5ZM in a pileup!!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 2021-08-09 16:00, Sandy Hutson wrote:
>> 
>> You do have to wait when he is in the 0 to +++ dB range of audio and still not going to SSB or CW where he could be easily heard and worked. Sorry for those not on FT8 who have to wonder when he will change modes, if he does. 12m band would be an ATNO for many ADXA members.
>> 
>> Stay safe and cool this week!
>> 
>> San YY
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: John McKinnie
>> Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 4:46 PM
>> To: ADXA List
>> Subject: [ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> HK0/HK3X is on 12 M FT8.  He is about +5 to +7 here.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> No real waiting to work him.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> KT4AC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
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