[ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8

Mon Aug 9 19:46:06 EDT 2021

I'm going to add my 2p to the topic for a totally non-technical view.

I have my BW set to 3.6 because it more accurately relates to my abilities
to work the so-called "weak" stations.

If I see someone say at -20, I know my chances of working him are either
slim or none.  Narrowing my BW would not help him receive me at all as I
figure his BW is also set wide.  I'm probably down further in the mud on
his side for sure since I've only got 5 elements at 35' on 6m and ~90w.
One thing that is a major factor is QSB and propagation one direction or
the other which adds a whole other level of what's going on, or not.  Just
saying.

But Joel's elaborate description is 100% on point.  I know some folks that
need to see it, mostly new hams that have never experienced a solar cycle
yet when things really get wild for all bands/modes, I can't wait.  It will
probably be my last one, I hope it's better than predicted as I want to "go
out with a bang".

73's
George - WB5JJJ

4

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:05 PM Sandy Hutson <k5yy1 at cox.net> wrote:

> I have clearly stated in the past year, that the -5 to 0 dB range on being
> heard on CW would depend on narrowing the bandwidth down from 2 or 1.5 kc
> to perhaps 800-500 and for sure improve hearing at 300 cycles. No issues
> with that. And the same on the SSB side of the banter. Go from 2.8-2.5
> bandwidth to 2.0 and you can hear weaker signals better and if you go to
> 1.5 width on SSB, you can hear but, yes, weaker, but you can hear. So, when
> someone posts a +dB in spotting a station on FT8, I KNOW they can be heard
> on properly bandwidth CW and even SSB at times. I did not mean to delve
> into the *deep side of a discussion* of a guy being heard if he went to
> CW or SSB on CE0… IIWII
>
>
>
> And we are not sure what width the FT8 *reporting station* may be using
> but if they report hearing in the 0 to + dB area, I can hear them on CW *very
> narrow* width. Have done it in the past and I do use the reported dB from
> DX Summit or on the ADXA site as *to if better than 0 dB*… I will not
> guess what bandwidth they are using but the narrower you go, you can expect
> the signal to go down but readability go up *many times. * I do not try
> to explain the FT8 system per se, just know what dB report can or can not
> be heard on CW.. Everyone knows that a narrowing of the bandwidth of a
> station on CW or even SSB will lessen the strength and you gotta listen a
> bit harder, but you can remove the “side” stronger QSO crud going on and
> maybe copy a CW station at a 519 but not a great QSO at 279 with loud side
> chatter, clutter or steady key down audio from an idiot. And on CW you can
> go to the opposite sideband, like from listening in the USB position to the
> LSB position, etc etc etc… To each his own way of tuning.
>
>
>
> Nuff for now. Still wish the guy would go to CW at least while on CE0 but
> appears he is FT8 only.
> San
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *w5zn at w5zn.org
> *Sent: *Monday, August 9, 2021 5:31 PM
> *To: *ADXA List <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8
>
>
>
> OK folks.....let's all understand what the "dB" SNR reading on an FT8
> signal means. It means NOTHING...absolutely NOTHING!!!. It is a signal to
> noise ratio however it takes in to account the signal compared to the noise
> of the entire bandwidth your radio is set to plus all of the other signals
> in that bandwidth.
>
> You can actually change that number on your radio and make it extremely
> higher if you want to brag (DX'ers brag???) about how strong someone is at
> your station by running a simple test to prove the point. The next time you
> see a signal that is -15 to -20 dB, reduce your bandwidth to 500 Hz or so
> and center it on the station you are copying. For example, if the station
> has a DF of 1250 Hz, reduce the filter bandwidth and then center it at 1250
> Hz and see what happens!!! That "dB" number will jump up to 0 or plus
> something. Its simple math and the reason we reduce our filter bandwidths
> on CW.
>
> So, it is a meaningless number. If a station is at 0 dB  you may hear the
> signal or you may not. Don't hang your hat on that number. In fact,
> completely IGNORE it!!!
>
> Why doesn't that station go down to CW or SSB?? Several reasons that may
> include:
>
> 1. They don't know CW and don't care to learn it (and never will) but love
> amateur radio and want to get on the air.
>
> 2. On SSB they "could" work more stations if the op was good and the
> pileup were tame. Most likely it won't be and the op doesn't want to
> attempt to manage an unruly pileup on SSB. On FT8 the op can easily manage
> it as he/she wants. Not all DX ops are good pileup managers.
>
> FT8 is good for amateur radio. All of us "old dogs" like me can complain
> all we want but the reason there is so much activity on FT8 is it is an
> easy mode to learn and to get on the air with. That means more activity and
> more DX.
>
> I personally know of three hams right here in Arkansas that never had any
> interest in HF and DX but they tried FT8, actually got on the air somewhere
> other than a 2 meter repeater or the 75 meter morning medical grumbling
> frequency and have now completed a DXCC. Two of them are joining
> ADXA.....another PLUS!!!! They're consumed with HF and DX'ing now.
>
> Enough of my sermon for the day.......the ADXA offering plate will be
> passed shortly !!!!
>
> You all know what to do, regardless of the mode or band........GET IN
> THERE AND WORK 'EM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> 73 Joel W5ZN
>
> CW Forever, DX Forever and ANY MODE forever if I can use it to work a new
> one and beat out N5ZM in a pileup!!
>
>
>
> On 2021-08-09 16:00, Sandy Hutson wrote:
>
> *You do have to wait* when he is in the *0 to +++ dB* range of audio and
> still not going to SSB or CW where he could be easily heard and worked.
> Sorry for those not on FT8 who have to wonder when he will change modes, if
> he does. 12m band would be an ATNO for many ADXA members.
>
> Stay safe and cool this week!
>
> San YY
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *John McKinnie <kt4ac at att.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, August 9, 2021 4:46 PM
> *To: *ADXA List <adxa at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject: *[ADXA] HK0/HK3X 12M FT8
>
>
>
> HK0/HK3X is on 12 M FT8.  He is about +5 to +7 here.
>
>
>
> No real waiting to work him.
>
>
>
> John
>
> KT4AC
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ADXA mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/adxa
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ADXA at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ADXA mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/adxa
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ADXA at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/adxa/attachments/20210809/c1ee63c6/attachment.html>