[ADXA] agree, for the most part. Each has our own goals, especially later in life.. HI

Fri Feb 22 16:12:24 EST 2019

Understand the double edge sword situation and it’s up to each DXer to decide what to do. I chase current valid DXCC countries (non deleted) on the band count and stand at 2863 but getting to 2900 is no goal I have. No telling how many I have if you count confirmed deleted DXCC countries in the mix. I have so many shoe boxes full of band cards and not worth chasing down the older, deleted entities. But is one is deleted every 3-4 years, that is no problem. As an honorary member of NCDXC, our listings are based on current DXCC listings and updated monthly for new ones confirmed. I’ve sorta quit chasing a couple of bands, especially with the SS cycle being low now and signals so marginal, and when QRN and QSB and DQRM are thrown in. 

Joel, I can see the bind, but I don’t like the bind being on the ARRL instead of the DXpedition. If strict rules were followed as many years ago, then the DX chasers would NOT blame the ARRL, knowing that the onus was on the DXpedition to follow rules. But, I also understand that the DXped could change their minds later, and then 1000s wud not be in the log. I am sure I wud do what you will be doing, considering the high ranking you have on 160m and the great Challenge numbers. Now, lets just sit back and see what happens. Maybe after the pileups subside I will squeeze in a 20m CW contact or FT8 on 60m! LOL !!
San YY

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: w5zn at w5zn.org
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 2:11 PM
To: adxa
Subject: Re: [ADXA] 3Y0 thoughts about ARRL input before a trip starts?Interesting thought...

I do not subscribe to a high fee for a QSL. It simply goes against all ethical boundaries that I believe exists in the DXCC program and if they do in fact follow through with what has been rumored it will cause a huge controversy.
With that said, frankly nothing will be done to address it and here is why as this has been a tactic used in the past with a couple of proposed new countries. Say you head down to a new country, or in this case and extremely rare country and you put  50,000 plus Q's in the log. No question as to the legitimacy of the operation - everything is in order and all good and then the DXPedition team draws a line in the sand, daring the sponsor (in this case ARRL) to not accept the op because of their QSL policy. Then the award sponsor declines to accept the operation because of it, based on a rule or ethics violation. What happens next is you have 50,000 folks, or representatives of 50,000 Q's, screaming at the sponsor, who are willing to pay the ransom to get credit for their Q! Yes, there is history here!
For you Star Trek fans, it is the Kobayashi Maru, the "No Win Scenario" for ARRL and I can assure you the screamers who don't care about ethics will be loudest and win.
I don't like it one bit however we will be playing on the Rebel DX Groups terms and ARRL will be backed in a corner. Sadly the ethics of year's past went out the window in the DXCC program a few years ago.
Will I pay the ransom? Probably. I'm sitting at 2975 on the DXCC Challenge in my quest for 3,000 and Bouvet should give me a minimum of 5 new band countries as I only have 3Y on 40 & 15 meters. But I certainly won't wake up the next morning feeling good about it.
We'll see what happens. Nothing is settled yet and as several have noted "They ain't there yet!" My advice to those who need Bouvet and want to work them is simply that, work 'em, get them in your log and then decide what you want to do. You don't have to play their game right now (or ever) if you don't want to however 5 years down the road you may change your mind and want that card. You each have to decide what you want to do on your own. If you decide not to work them and afterward they decide to provide a reasonable QSL path you will kick yourself in the butt for not working them if you need them!
One additional point. If this does come to be and we are faced with a very unreasonable fee for a QSL card and the ADXA membership concludes it is unethical and not in the spirit of the DXCC program I will have no issue whatsoever signing a letter, as ADXA President, to be sent to ARRL regarding this matter on behalf of ADXA.
73 Joel W5ZN

On 2019-02-22 12:27, HamOP wrote:
Agree, Stan... So, perhaps pressure the LoTW log submission by end of trip, but I do NOT think that will sway the group's leader the least bit. Not counting QSOs due to an ARRL Board decision perhaps will work. There is a thought process and possible sanctioning an operation based on ethics issues. Happened in the 1970s to a guy who said "no money, no QSL".. Rick, David or Joel might remember the specifics and the DXpedition call or could look it up. I was on the DXAC but no longer have those records.

At the same time, I can see a group saying there have been so few pre-trip donations to speak of (hmmm, whose fault is that?) and the necessity of recouping the outlay of funds from "post trip" QSLing process. And they can say this is "our process and work us based on it"... We all just stand by and see now... 

This is going to be interesting, and the ARRL getting involved might help, letting pertinent direct QSLing and LoTW critique information out BEFORE the trip so the 3Y0 team will know in advance! If not counted for DXCC, then so many will not work them at all... Now, that would be a true money loser. I side with the ADXA member comments and suggestions....
San

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Stan Ross
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 12:44 PM
To: David Norris
Cc: HamOP; adxa
Subject: Re: [ADXA] The ADXA Weenie Award and 3Y0

Dittos, Gents! 

Maybe the DXCC desk could add a "LOTW by the end of the Dxpedition" rule to be credited!

Stan
K5VR
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2019, at 10:18 AM, David Norris via ADXA <adxa at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
I hear ya San!

$50 for the first QSO is what I call Bravo Sierra!  

Will they even get there? At this point who cares? 

It reminds me of this guy named Herrick 
many years ago. He had a lucrative QSL business bilking the DXer at $20 a pop and then you get your QSL three years later VIA BURO. What a load! 

73 

David A. Norris, K5UZ
Director, Delta Division

Sent from my iPhone

help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
ADXA mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/adxa
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:ADXA at mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
ADXA mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/adxa
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:ADXA at mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/adxa/attachments/20190222/f389abab/attachment-0001.html>