[1000mp] RE: FT-1000MP frequency accuracy
Tod Olson
[email protected]
Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:53:55 -0500
Meade:
=20
I am replying to you and sending a copy of our 'off-reflector'
correspondence to the reflector as well. The reason I am doing that is
three-fold.
=20
(1). My pictures and modification apply only to the FT1000MP apparently =
and
not at all to the FT1000 Field. I believe that is worth alerting people =
to.
My suggestion with respect to adjusting the Master Oscillator which
apparently was endorsed by the Yaesu service group and then executed by =
you
solved a frequency readout problem that other Field owners may have
experienced.
=20
(2). I wonder if anyone has or can take pictures of the Field Master
Oscillator board. Also, does anyone have the specifications for this
oscillator as presented by Yaesu and/or independent measurements that =
would
indicated the time stability of the oscillator chip on the board. Does
anyone know if this chip is a Yaesu 'house chip' or one that is =
available
from an alternative supplier.=20
=20
If this chip has better short and long term stability than the discrete
components oscillator in the FT1000MP that would be of interest to me. =
(and
maybe others).
=20
(3) I have no information regarding the rectangular hole you mention.
Perhaps someone else on the reflector does know.
=20
=20
Tod, K=D8TO
=20
_____ =20
From: Meade Daffron [mailto:[email protected]]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 6:46 AM
To: Tod Olson
Subject: RE: FT-1000MP frequency accuracy
Tod,
=20
Went home last night, instructions and schematics in hand, and removed =
the
top and bottom covers of my Field. I located the REF board, a small =
board
about 2x3 inches in size, on the right-hand side of the radio just =
behind
the front panel. Unlike the photo of the board on an FT-1000MP on your =
page,
Yaesu has changed the board and upgraded it with SMCs. In fact, when you
pull the cover off, all you see on an otherwise barren REF board is a
three-pin connector. You have to remove the board from the radio (four
screws) to get at the components, which are mounted inward on the =
chassis
side. To my dismay I found that there's not a separate reference crystal =
and
a handy separate pot like on the 1000MP's board, but instead a tiny
(1/2x1/2) oscillator chip with the tiniest screw I've ever seen embedded =
in
a wee little hole in the top of the chip. Alas, my smallest jeweler's
screwdriver DID fit, but barely. Using zero-beated WWV as a reference =
per
Yaesu's instructions, I turned that screw carefully until I achieved
zero-beat on 15 MHz, and then compared my results on 2.5, 5, 10, and 20 =
--
and on a few nets. Success! The rig is spot-on everywhere I checked, =
even
after another five hours of letting the rig stay on. I'm happy again!
=20
By the way, do you by chance know what the covered rectangular hole is =
for
at the top rear panel of the radio?
=20
Meade K4CMD
=20
=20
_____ =20
From: Tod Olson [mailto:[email protected]]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:18 PM
To: Meade Daffron
Subject: RE: FT-1000MP frequency accuracy
=20
I suggest you don't ship the radio for the moment.
=20
If you have a computer and sound card that can be connected to the radio =
use
that to look at WWV. The WWV error at 10 MHz is a good way to check the
error of the crystal oscillator which operates at slightly above 10 MHz. =
=20
If you have not already done so please read my notes on this topic at
http://www.k0to.us/FT1000MP/FT1000MP%20REF%20Unit%20Checking%20and%20Sett=
ing
%20.htm
=20
=20
=20
I discuss what software to use and where to download it. That software =
will
allow you to listen to the either of two tones on WWV (not the carrier
frequency) and detect the error in the frequency of the Master =
Oscillator.
All of the frequencies that are used and shown are tied to that =
oscillator.
There are two alternative oscillators available for extra dollars. Each =
of
them has better long term stability than the one included with the =
radio.=20
=20
However, if you were to buy these TCXO s you would STILL need to adjust =
them
to the correct frequency in order to get correct dial readings of =
frequency.
=20
Check your radio by downloading and installing the software and using it =
to
measure the frequency of the WWV tones. Before I installed my changes I
found that when I turned on the radio the frequency was noticeably off =
when
the radio was cold and it drifted (fairly rapidly) to a frequency that =
was
close, but not exact. In my radio the drift continued very slowly for =
many
hours.=20
=20
Once you have established the frequency at start up, leave the radio on =
for
a day and then measure the frequency. That should give you an idea of =
where
it will finally stabilize. Even if you do not put in the changes I did, =
I
suggest that you remove the screws from the radio covers but not take =
them
off. Then let it warm up for at least 24 hours. Now open the radio and
adjust the frequency by changing the tuning capacitor on the oscillator
board. Use the computer program to get right on the tone frequency (you
should be able to get within 2 Hz easily). Then replace the covers but =
do
not insert the screws. Check the frequency again after an hour or so. It
should be within a few Hz of your adjusted frequency. If it is put in =
the
screws otherwise try adjusting again.=20
=20
When you make this adjustment you can also check the frequency of WWV at
2.5, 5, 10 and 15 MHz as well as check your frequency against other =
folks on
the bands. You should be very, very close to "right on". An error of 20 =
Hz
on SSB can be detected if you have a good ear, otherwise it will not be
noticeable.=20
=20
The reason to do the modification I did is to reduce the time needed to =
get
to 'stability'. I wanted to be very close to the correct frequency is =
less
than one minute and essentially 'on frequency' after five minutes. The =
two
TCXO's will do this -- perhaps even better than my modification, but =
they
cost quite a bit more. Once the radio has warmed up enough, the =
frequency
accuracy should not be a problem. If you plan to work PSK with scheduled
frequencies or work Lowfer frequencies where fractions of a Hz error =
will
cause you not to hear a signal, you will probably need to either buy a =
TCXO
or make the mod.
=20
73, Tod, K=D8TO
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
_____ =20
From: Meade Daffron [mailto:[email protected]]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: FT-1000MP frequency accuracy
Hey, I=92ve read with great interest your information on frequency drift =
with
the FT-1000MP. But I=92m wondering if you=92ve measured the frequency =
ACCURACY
on various frequencies. Maybe you can shed some light on a problem I=92m
having with a 3-week-old Field I just purchased. Here=92s a copy of an =
e-mail
I just sent VA3CR:
=20
Hi, I=92ve been really enjoying your web site for a couple of months. In =
fact,
it went a long way toward my decision to purchase an FT-1000MP Mark V =
Field
three weeks ago. Well, now I have a problem, and since I=92m not a =
member of
any of the mail list servers (can=92t be here at work), I thought I=92d =
e-mail
it to you and see if you could put it up for commentary on your web =
page.
Here it is:
=20
I purchased a new Yaesu FT-1000MP Mark-V Field from Ham Radio Outlet in
Atlanta on March 13, 2004. Within a week of putting the rig on the air, =
I
began to wonder why it seemed that everywhere I went, everyone was off
frequency! Soon I went to several WWV frequencies and did the =93LSB and =
USB=94
thing, and found that the radio is right on at lower frequencies, such =
as
the AM BC band and 160 meters, but begins showing a frequency error as =
you
move higher in frequency, topping out at around 60 Hz off-frequency on =
10
meters!
=20
I did some in-house testing last night. A local ham friend of mine got =
on 10
meters with me; specifically, 28.400 MHz. I spent a good amount of time
tuning him in, and the final result was, when he was on 28.400.00 (with =
his
TS-850S), I tuned him in between 28.400.05 and 28.400.06. We then went =
to
3.820 MHz where his frequency display and mine were almost exactly the =
same.
This confirmed observations I have made on various nets and other =
supposedly
=93set-frequency=94 conditions where I have found the rig to be pretty =
much on
frequency on 80 meters, but 30 Hz high on 20 and 17 meters, where I do =
most
of my operating.
=20
But knowing his radio is not a known reference, I then put the 1000MP in =
CW
mode and carefully zero-beated WWV at all frequencies, using headphones =
and
the 1000MP=92s SPOT function to get an exact zero-beat. Here=92s what my =
rig=92s
display showed when zero-beated at each WWV frequency:
=20
WWV 2.5 MHz: 2.500.00
WWV 5 MHz: 5.000.01
WWV 10 MHz: 10.000.02
WWV 15 MHz: 15.000.03
WWV 20 MHz: 20.000.04
=20
I then reversed the CW sideband and left SPOT on so I could hear a 700 =
Hz
tone on WWV. Leaving things set up in this fashion, I then used the =
rig=92s
keypad to enter each WWV frequency exactly, i.e. 2.500.00, 5.000.00, and =
so
on. The tone I heard upon arrival at each WWV frequency was noticeably
different on each frequency; i.e. 15 MHz had a noticeably higher tone =
(730
Hz) than 5 MHz (710 Hz); the difference was more pronounced between 20 =
MHz
(740 Hz) and 2.5 MHz (700 Hz). This confirmed that the departure from =
being
on-frequency varies between bands, getting worse as the frequency moves
upward.
=20
To summarize, the rig=92s display is accurate at very low frequencies =
=96 i.e.
160 meters =96 and as you tune higher in frequency, the rig (or display) =
gets
farther and farther off. By the time I=92m on 10 meters the display =
shows a 60
Hz difference from the actual frequency. (The lack of a precise =
reference
frequency like WWV kept me from doing a zero-beat test above 20 MHz, but =
I
think you can see the trend in the measurements I listed above.)
=20
I have e-mailed Yaesu about this and my warranty card, which was =
=93returned
to sender=94 as undeliverable. I have not received a response yet from =
Yaesu.
(I went ahead and registered the radio on Yaesu=92s web site.) I am =
hoping
this is something that can be corrected without sending my 3-week-old =
rig
cross-country, but the fact that the frequency error varies as you move =
up
in frequency makes me believe this is not something that can be =
corrected by
adjusting one pot or menu item =96 i.e. if I =93zero=94 the display on =
10 meters,
for example, then the display could be 60 Hz low on 160 meters. This =
also
confirms the absence of RIT (which I confirmed was off) or any other
variable that would introduce an error of equal value across the entire
frequency range =96 not an error that varies as you move up in frequency =
as is
the case here.
=20
By the way, I started this test by performing a =93hard reset=94 of the =
radio,
and then performed the WWV measurements twice =96 once about 15 minutes =
after
turning the rig on, and again after having left the rig on for 6 hours. =
The
measurements were the same both times.
=20
I don=92t tend to look for problems =96 I noticed this after hours of =
routine
operating and wondering why EVERYONE seemed to be off frequency =96 even =
ECARS
and the Maritime Mobile Service Net. After two decades owning
=93middle-of-the-road=94 radios, I bought this =93top-of-the-line=94 one =
as a gift
to myself for 25 years in the hobby. And I think an $1800 radio=92s =
frequency
should not be wandering around as you change bands =96 after all, my =
former
radio, a TS-570D at half the price of this one, did not.
=20
Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what=92s the fix? I hate to =
think of
how much it will cost to insure and ship this 33-pound, 3-week old beast
from Virginia to California, not to mention how long I=92ll be without a =
radio
as a result. I=92ll send an update when I find out what=92s wrong.
=20
73,
=20
Meade K4CMD
=20
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