[1000mp] Re: ProII - IC756ProII vs FT-1000MP/MkV/Field - Apples and Oranges

[WD8ARZ]

Thanks Ron, appreciate your sharing the experience that you are having. Bet
there are others on the MP/MkV/Field reflector that would be interested to,
so have posted this thread there now with this reply.

73 from Bill - WD8ARZ
wd8arz@ix.netcom.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Freeman" <k5mm@arrl.net>
To: <wd8arz@ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:21
Subject: RE: ProII
>

> Bill,
>
> What a terrific note regarding the Mk V vs Pro II.  Naturally I agree.  I
> just bought a (little) used Pro II for 6 meters (I wanted the band scope)
> and as a general purpose backup to my Mk V.
>
> I've had the Mk V about 18 months--its a very nice radio but had I to do
it
> over again I think would have kept my FT1000D--I'm a dxer/contestor.
>
> 73//Ron K5MM

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "WD8ARZ" <WD8ARZ@IX.NETCOM.COM>
To: <icom@mailman.qth.net>
Cc: <edgait@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 09:44
Subject: [Icom] IC756ProII vs FT-1000MP/MkV/Field - Apples and Oranges
I resisted, I really did resist responding to this topic ...... however
..... I know opinions and emotions tend to rule, but technical aspects are
more important to performance.

There is no real comparison between the IC756ProII and the
FT-1000MP/MkV/Field (all three models). Discrete filters in the first two
i.f. stages have a proven track record and are a must for good mode
bandwidth selection performance. Dsp filters have not yet measured up to
discrete filters at these higher i.f. frequencies.

There are no narrow filters in the IC756ProII first and second I.F. stages.
There is a manual choice of five in each of two i.f.'s in the FT-1000MP (for
a total of 10 discrete filters), and auto selections in the
FT-1000/MkV/Field. Software options will allow individual filter selections
in the MkV and the Field versions. Many still prefer the MP for this reason.
The Mp and the Field version are also 12v Dc versions. The Mkv is not 12v.
Because so many go for the latest fad rig, there are many MP's out there to
be had for a great price. These will be collector items one day .... hint
hint

The reason that there are no narrow discrete filters in the first two i.f's
of the IC756ProII, is due to the need to allow wide bandwidth i.f. to pass
to the band scope. This is also why the roofing filter is put into the
'third' i.f. stage, and only there to improve the performance of the Dsp
system further down line. Many other rigs put their roofing filters in the
first i.f. stage.

In the case of the FT-1000MP/MkV/Field, the roofing filter is prior to 'all'
amplification stages, even prior to the pre amp. This narrow 12khz filter
improves the performance of front end overload considerably, and must be way
way up front to improve performance, maintain phase and proper delay for
noise blanker performance, and to keep distortion products to a minimum.

The end result is that the real world specs of receivers (not the one that
has a spin on it from the manufactures or one that is in a money trail) will
show conclusively that that the IC756ProII just can not measure up to many
other receiver's front end performance. It is a trade off for the pricey
scope. There are also numerous reports of serious purchases of this rig
resulting in disappointed users who have returned them due to poorer receive
performance in strong signal areas .... they of course had to over look the
obvious beauty of this rig, and its great display and scope.

When comparing radios, it is important the comparer know both rigs very
well, and have all the controls and especially the menu system, set up for
good performance and of comparable situations. All rigs have strength and
weaknesses. Isn't that why we love mods for our rigs? To improve the audio
hiss at low volume's in the MP and rigs that use the popular  TDA2002 audio
power amp, use the improved chip TDA2003. It is super quiet and is a direct
replacement for the TDA2002. Costs about four bucks. To improve front end
receiver i.f. noise in the MP/MkV (unknown about the Field), put in the
Inrad mod, BUT turn down the front end i.f. gain to compensate.... and many
don't turn down the front end i.f. gain to compensate because they
incorrectly want the higher S meter readings. The MP/MkV/Field are NOT known
as the best CW rigs out there (that goes to TenTec), but for SSB in crowded
RF areas, it is among some of the best. Period. Yes, there are options on
how to set up the audio balance controls for the dual receivers in the
MP/MkV/Field ... in the menu.

There are not many substitutes out there for panadapters, especially those
that perform in real time like the SM-220 or SM-230 from Kenwood. (note that
many prefer the 220 over the 230 due to cost and drift in the 230) Also note
that the scope in the IC-756ProII is not the full width of the display, so
not five inches.

Having a good panadapter/spectrum analyzer that doesn't cost a mint, is a
very nice addition to one's shack. That is why I still have a fully
functional Icom IC-720 hf rig connected to a Kenwood SM-220 Panadapter. This
functions as my monitoring the band around the center frequency of interest,
The scope can not use the I.F. from my FT-1000MP as is, due to the roofing
filter discussed earlier.

As some have already said on this topic, the IC756ProII is a great general
use rig, and not a bad second rig, though very expensive in order to have
that scope that we all get quickly addicted to. Icom it self has slammed the
previous version of this rig by comparing all the improvements in the ProII
to the previous plain Pro.

Until Dsp filters at the higher i.f. frequency improve considerably,
comparing these two rigs is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes both are
round, have cores and can be pealed, but a orange pie is no substitute for a
apple pie. However, you will continue to find orange pie ravers because they
must support their belief system ....... Well, we all have different tastes
don't we? Hi Hi

73 from Bill - WD8ARZ
wd8arz@ix.netcom.com
owner of many other Icom products
(now where did I put that asbestos suit?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Gaitley" <edgait@earthlink.net>
To: <icom@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 14:49
Subject: [Icom] Decision time and request for advice (long)
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> I'm getting ready to purchase my very first HF radio and I'm
> looking for some advice.  This is a big decision for me and it
> involves a big chunk of hard-earned cash.
>
> So far, I've narrowed my choice to the either the new 756ProII
> or the Yaesu FT-1000MP MkV. After spending many hours over
> the past several weekends at the local ham store using, comparing,
> playing with, and listening to both radios, my decision is to
> go with the 756ProII. It wins over the Yaesu hands down. I won't
> get into all the reasons why I
> chose it but I just like the ProII all around. It seems to be
> an evolution in HF radio design. Sure, it doesn't put out 200
> watts or have a 75watt Class A transmitter like the FT-1000MP
> MkV does but I can live with that. I live in an apartment and
> also very near some power lines so I want the most modern and
> best DSP and noise management capabilities that I can get.
>
> For Icom owners in general and any 756Pro or ProII users specifically,
> have you had any serious quality problems with your radios? If
> so, how has the Icom service been? Are you still glad you bought
> the radio?  Any concerns, problems or issues I should be aware
> of? I haven't found any seriously negative press on this radio
> so far so that's good news to me. Of course it's still fairly
> new radio too.
>
> I plan to go buy the radio this weekend but it will be a few
> weeks until I'm on the air because I have to get an antenna mast
> holder made for my apartment balcony. I plan on using a *ham
> stick" dipole on a telescoping mast. The antenna has to be put
> up before each use taken down when I'm not on the air to avoid
> the wrath of the apartment manager (my lease says absolutely
> no antennas of any kind so I have to operate in stealth mode
> - when I put up a DirecTV dish, I got an eviction notice - yes
> I know I should move but that can't happen until next year).
>

> Thanks in advance for any comments or help.
>
> 73,
>
> Ed, N6EG