[1000mp] Re: [Elecraft] BPL
Milt Jensen, N5IA
[email protected]
Thu, 3 Jan 1980 22:02:25 -0700
Hi Steve,
To each his own choice of course, but with knowledge of the whole picture I
doubt that you would support the conversion to total underground unless you
are financially well to do with no concern for a doubling or tripling of
your power costs.
There is absolutely no reason for any power system to be RF noisy. Outside
of the close proximity expanding/contracting magnetic field there is no
inherent "noise" in the AC power distribution systems.
The RF noise sources are all from ppieces of the distribution system which
are NOT performing correctly. The sources are myriad, but in my 35 years of
experience the majority of them are associated with isolated (not grounded)
hardware located in the near field of the energized lines that at the same
time are close (reaad arc gap) to grounded hardware.
Faulty equipment (transformers, lightning arresters, capacitors, cracked
insulators, lighting fixtures, etc.) are the second greatest offender.
Either of these general sources of RF noise is easily prevented, controlled
and corrected by application of installation, maintenance, and
troubleshooting guidelines oriented towards prevention of RFI. Should your
experience of no response from your power provider continue, you should
document all your attempts to work with them. You should formally inform
them that the incidental radiation from their power lines is a violation of
FCC regulations and that your documented information will be forwarded to
the FCC AND the state Public Service Commission.
It is unfortunate that you have to endure the problem as well as go to all
this effort to get some positive action. I really don't have any other
advice for you at this time. I can only tell you that putting all the power
lines underground will NOT solve all the RFI problems. It WILL cost SOMEONE
a lot more money for their electric power service and it does bring with it
a lot of other disadvantages that are not present with overhead lines.
Thanks for your interest.
Milt, N5IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 9:19 AM
Subject: [1000mp] Re: [Elecraft] BPL
>
> Milt,
> I have to make a couple of comments regarding your post. I've been an
> active ham for 30 years and have moved around the western part of the US a
> lot in that time. I have NEVER lived in a area with overhead power lines
> that didn't have power line noise. In addition I am active on HF mobile
and
> constantly encounter power line interference while traveling around the
> country.
> The power company people I've had to work with to resolve these
> interference issues have ranged from willing but not knowledgeable to
nearly
> hostile. At my last home I had to virtually train the local power company
> radio tech. in finding power line RFI. I even bought him a copy of "Power
> line distribution system radio frequency interference, an investigative
> handbook" written by the "Dept. of communications, Ontario Region,
spectrum
> control". (If you're not familiar with this publication I suggest you get
a
> copy, its very good).
> At my current home I have overhead lines and power line interference. I've
> been calling the repair department of my local power company twice a week
> for 3 weeks. In one conversation I had with the tech. he told me flat out
> that there was so much power line interference because of aging hardware
> that they could never afford to repair half of it. They just respond to
the
> squeaky wheel (me). My experience and observations tend to support this.
> Although the cost of converting to underground power is high, I suspect
its
> less than the cost a ACTUALLY resolving the widespread RFI caused by
> existing overhead power line hardware. If there were a proposal to require
> conversion to underground power service I would support it.
>
> Steve
>
> p.s. One issue I've never heard addressed is the problem of RFI from home
> electronics being coupled into the overhead power lines. I suspect that
> elimination of overhead power lines in residential communities would also
> eliminate a lot of RFI from home appliances.
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Milt Jensen
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 04:01
> To: Dan Allen; Kenneth E. Harker; [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected];
> [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: [1000mp] Re: [Elecraft] BPL
>
>
> Dan,
>
> Think about what you are saying. This is unreal as it is not economically
> feasable.
>
> I work for a rural elecectric cooperative (35 years) where I am in charge
of
> the technical services. One of our services is broadband Internet to our
> members via 2.4 and 5.8 gHz. microwave. I have advised our general
manager
> that BPL is NOT a feasable method of data delivery in rural areas.
>
> Now to your statement. At our cooperative we have in excess of 400 miles
of
> overhead line to serve a few more than 2000 meters. That is about 5
meters
> per mile of line. We can't afford to put the lines underground. You do
> know that the users of the lines have to pay for them, don't you?
>
> At our neighboring cooperative in SW New Mexico, they have about 1,880
> miles of overhead line to serve nearly 4,800 meters. You can readily see
> that this is about 2.6 meters per mile.
>
> The cost of putting distribution voltage (7,200 and 14,400 Volts phase to
> ground) line underground in our area is about FOUR times the cost of
> overhead construction. Single phase OH line costs about $10,000 per mile
in
> open country. Three phase OH line construction costs are nearly $20,000
per
> mile. Line cosntruction costs are amortized over a period of 40 years to
> make the cost per kilowatt hour reasonable.
>
> These quoted costs are significantly less than they are in other parts of
> the country due to various reasons. There is much more cost involved in
any
> lines constructed through State and Federal (BLM and USFS) lands where
both
> environmental and archaeological studies are required to be performed.
> State and Federal lands comprise nearly 90% of the total surface area in
SW
> NM and SE AZ.
>
> The land disturbance of an overhead line is insignificant in comparison
with
> that caused by underground line construction. I agree that the aesthetic
> result is better with underground construction. Beyond the distribution
> lines, I really don't think you or any other reasonable person would pay
the
> costs of putting ten of thousands of miles of high voltage transmission
> lines underground.
>
> As to your statement regarding safety and national security, I disagree.
> The difference is neglible in either field.
>
> Regarding interference, the potential is there and certainly is the source
> of much interference. However, your campaign time and money would be much
> better spent, and in less quantity, by lobbying the FCC to do a better job
> of policing these "unintentional radiators".
>
> As an individual intimately knowledgeable of the construction and
> maintenance techniques of rural electric distribution lines, I can tell
you
> that there is NO problem of RFI from properly constructed lines. Proper
> maintenance, addressing problems caused by aging, weather, and subsequent
> construction (hanging new transformers for example) will maintain a line
> clean in terms of RFI.
>
> This response is NOT to start a debate. It is simply the viewpoint of one
> who has been there and done that.
>
> Milt, N5IA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Allen" <[email protected]>
> To: "Kenneth E. Harker" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>;
> <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 10:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] BPL
>
>
> > We should also campaign to have *all* power lines placed underground as
> they
> > do in Europe. This is a safety and national security issue as well as
an
> > interference issue.
> >
> > Dan Allen
> > KB4ZVM
> > K2 S/N 1757
> >
>
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